Welfare reform? Who needs it?!?

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Stargazer

Why war is more important than building a better society for those who pay taxes for it, is a mystery.

Remember, the first word used by Bush to justify his war was "CRUSADE"!

 

"How, they wonder, did so many conservatives, who normally don't trust their government to run a public school down the street, come to believe that federal bureaucrats could transform an entire nation in the alien culture of the Middle East?"

 

If you need more details go to:

 

http://www.pnac.info/

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Stargazer

Originally posted by: Tormod

This is a terrible predicament and only very, very few people who are in this situation manage to break out of it (come on, we are talking about millions of American citizens here. Do you reallt think there is a job waiting for all of them, or that they have what it takes to start an enterprise on their own?)

I doubt that anyone could think so.

I have an old friend that is a staunch Republican. He states all the time that "Anyone that wants a job, has one". He uses the example of someone that came into his restaurant and complained about having lost his decades long, family supporting, professional job. My friend offered him a job at $9.00/ hr working nights and weekends. The guy said he could not "afford" to take the job. Thus the guy had a chance to be employed and turned it down!

[Stargazer]

Originally posted by: Tormod

(But we need some faked birth certificates...I think the US president must be a US citizen by birth).

That's something that I found strange as well. You can be a law-abiding citizen, pay your taxes, but when it comes to running for president, you have no chance against someone like Bush - simply because he, as a citizen, has more rights than you, another citizen has.

[Stargazer]

Originally posted by: Freethinker

I have an old friend that is a staunch Republican. He states all the time that "Anyone that wants a job, has one". He uses the example of someone that came into his restaurant and complained about having lost his decades long, family supporting, professional job. My friend offered him a job at $9.00/ hr working nights and weekends. The guy said he could not "afford" to take the job. Thus the guy had a chance to be employed and turned it down!

 

So based on one event we don't even know whether it's true or not, we should believe that anyone who needs a job gets a job in that instant? How ridiculous. Maybe this is said mostly by people who currently has a job, or who is guaranteed a job because of their connections.

[lindagarrette]

Originally posted by: Freethinker

Originally posted by: Tormod

Well, we do see that the more people earn, the less they pay in tax. A recent article in one of our larges papers claimed that the top 5% of the moneymakers paid like 5% tax. Yet the average is supposed to be around 28%.

60 of the Fortune 500 US Corps PAID NO TAXES!

 

G Bush's excuse for not re-instating taxes on the upper 2% is that they already hide their income so well (and don't pay taxes) that nothing would be gained. He BRAGGED about it!

 

And the stupid working class voted for him anyway!

 

And 95 percent of corporations paid less than 5 percent of their income in taxes. With the huge tax cuts for wealthy individuals, it's no wonder the debt is enormous and growing. As a corporation owner myself, I know how easy it is to minimize taxes. I keep my margin between 2% and 8% by expensing everything, reinvesting, and advertising with donations. I won't pay taxes this year, either, except on my draw and the payroll tax for employees.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Stargazer

So based on one event we don't even know whether it's true or not, we should believe that anyone who needs a job gets a job in that instant? How ridiculous. Maybe this is said mostly by people who currently has a job, or who is guaranteed a job because of their connections.

There is no question of this being a "ME!" issue.

 

Those that "have" not giving a ratsass about anyone else. Wanting to keep as much of "THEIR" money as they can and if others suffer/ die, it was their own fault for being so lazy as to allow it. I hear it all the time from the "Right" side. "Compassionate Conservatism" being the oxymoron it so obviously is.

 

However there is definately truth to "need" being a motivator for many to do better. And "handouts" being a disincentive to work. I have seen both. It is not a back/white issue, as it is often made out to be by both sides.

 

But then what issue is?

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: lindagarrette

And 95 percent of corporations paid less than 5 percent of their income in taxes. With the huge tax cuts for wealthy individuals, it's no wonder the debt is enormous and growing. As a corporation owner myself, I know how easy it is to minimize taxes. I keep my margin between 2% and 8% by expensing everything, reinvesting, and advertising with donations. I won't pay taxes this year, either, except on my draw and the payroll tax for employees.

Again, something the average citizen is totally ignorant of and the Republican Party intentionally lies to the general public about to maintain the ignorance.

 

We hear about how the poor rich people are taxed at so high a rate. But it is never mentioned how well they are able to hide/ write off significant portions of their "wealth"/ income.

[Stargazer]

Originally posted by: Freethinker

I hear it all the time from the "Right" side. "Compassionate Conservatism" being the oxymoron it so obviously is.

Absolutely. Often it's the exact opposite to "compassion." Maybe it's some sort of "tough love"? Heh.

 

However there is definately truth to "need" being a motivator for many to do better. And "handouts" being a disincentive to work. I have seen both. It is not a back/white issue, as it is often made out to be by both sides.

Of course, and that is a problem. I don't know how it works with welfare over there, but over here you're expected to work actively to improve your situation before you can recieve help. That's in general cases.

 

But then what issue is?

Not many. But then there are those with a simplistic kind of thinking, that don't see the world to be complex, and that their ideology is the answer to all problems, even though reality might say otherwise...

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Stargazer

Of course, and that is a problem. I don't know how it works with welfare over there, but over here you're expected to work actively to improve your situation before you can recieve help. That's in general cases.

Nah, here the Welfare System went from (yes at times) a massive handout to whomever wanted it for any reason to another way to line the pockets of the wealthy.

 

Was watching a report the other day on what is called W2, the effort to get people working and off of welfare. Naturally the claim was that Welfare cost the taxpayer too much only to pay lazy people to not work.

 

So how well the program working? It was foound that many very ppor families are now living unsustainable lives with little chance of finding family sustaining jobs. And it has cost the State over $40,000,000.00 MORE than the old welfare program did.

 

So families are now going humgry and the additional costs are pocketed by a handful of Corps.

 

Good thing we got rid of that nasty welfare system that actuall keep families fed and cost less to the taxpayer!