Cure Disease, save lives/ Or flush the toilet (Stem Cells)

[sanctus]

Originally posted by: Freethinker

Originally posted by: sanctus

Freethinker and Gahd: where is the use of saying your opinion by almost (I enphatize almost) insulting the other?

Good question. I was wondering the same thing.

 

Notice, I started this thread, GAHD replied. No complications in either. I then posted a reply also lacking ANY anomosity or attacks. Merely asking if the two are not seperate issues.

 

3 posts, not problems....

 

Then GAHD attacked.

 

So if you want to know WHY the thread turned sour, ask the person that did it.

 

 

 

I guess he felt attacked by your post (even if I agree with you saying that you just answered), then you countre-attacked:

 

usual schema nobody started.

But just let's stop it here

[GAHD]

Odd I didn't think my 2nd post was an attack rather than a correction with some sarcastic wit thrown in(there _is_ a wink there).

 

Mexico was submitted because of their laws(or lack thereof) in the feild of human reserch. It has nothing to do with blame, but everything to do with current suitability. I suppose an off-shore oil rig would work too, but that leaves power and supply problems best left to the drillers.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: sanctus

Now as a poster:

 

there are actually two main question discussed here, as I see it.

 

1) Should we produce stem cells of embryos? and why?

 

1) No, for what I know there already enough cells to do enough research to prove that there is really an interest or none in this sector.

There are NOT enough of those original handful of cells. Lying as usual, Dubya claimed there were 60 original lines. But we now KNOW that there are only about 12 that are usable. And much of the questions we need to answer deal with the process of making them, which we can't do with existing lines. Additionally the cost of one shipment is prohibitively expensive because of the extremely low number. And those lines that exist may have had some contamination based on errors because of these being the first we ever did.

 

Bottom line, we can not have a successful ESC research program if stuck with only the small number of lines in existence.

 

Meanwhile, FLUSH........ There goes MORE additional embryo's being flushed rather than used to help humanity.

 

And all because of religious ignorance!

 

A part from this, Gahd I do not agree that the research should be made in Mexico

I am sure this was just more of his attack against me. I ignored the rest of his rant.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: GAHD

Odd I didn't think my 2nd post was an attack rather than a correction with some sarcastic wit thrown in(there _is_ a wink there).

The wink was not indicated to further in. So I took it based on the one of the statement. I replied in kind.

 

I apologize if I reacted improperly, but the over all tone just did not seem friendly.

 

Let's agree to move on.

[GAHD]

Can do FT. Now, Care to respond to the "why not do something" portion of my 'rants'

 

Seiously I would like to see the discussion turn from what seems to be a poll on opinion into something a little more constructive, answering the 'why', 'why not', and 'how' aspects of the topic seems a logical step.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: GAHD

Can do FT. Now, Care to respond to the "why not do something" portion of my 'rants'

Not sure which or which parts of your "rants" you wish to have addressed?

 

Mexico?

 

Wallet's being clamped?

 

A restating would be benefitial here.

[Tormod]

This thread sounds like something I could listen to for hours at a frat party.

[Freethinker]

The only thing I ever listened to at frat parties was Led Zepplin

[sanctus]

What is actually a frat party?

[Freethinker]

Ever see Animal House? :-)

 

If you don't know "Frat Party", you probably missed that cultural icon.

 

"Frat" is short for "Fraternity" - a group of people associated or formally organized for a common purpose, interest, or pleasure (WWWebster). In this usage, the group is specifically young males at a college. Typically using Greek letters for their name.

 

They are well known for throwing wild parties. Perhaps some of the wildest.

[sanctus]

Just for info to all those who have participated in this discussion.I n Switzerland this weekend there is a votation about putting a legal frame around stem cell research.I do not think it will pass, even if it's very stupid to vote against it even if you are against stem cell research, because: if the votation doesn't pass, then there is no frame and everybody can do what they want, but if it passes there is even an ethic commission which has to decide wheter a project is ethically acceptable or not. In addition to that this legal fraim also includes a law interdicting cloneing of those cells.

 

Let's hope for the best.

[sanctus]

Eventually that law passed, there is now a legal frame about stem-cell research

[Tim_Lou]

all things might be solve now:

http://www.hypography.com/article.cfm?id=34311

 

hehe, a hypography news!

"neural crest stem cells from adults...have the innate ability to differentiate into many diverse cell types". if this really works, every moral problem would be solved ;)

[pgrmdave]

Do any of you have a personal stake in this debate? Do any of you know a person who has a disease that could be cured through stem cell reserch, but bureaucratic conservatives are debating on an issue while people's lives are ruined? Sorry if I seem angry, but I have friends with severly reduced life spans for no good reason.

[IrishEyes]

I have friends with severly reduced life spans for no good reason.

 

Survival of the fittest?

 

Sorry if that seems cold, but we've discussed something similar at length. If "Death With Dignity" is such a good thing (and I firmly believe it is), then why is there such an insistence on funding stem cell research in the hopes of finding cures for all of the diseases that stem cells could possibly 'cure'?

 

Cure disease, save lives, longer lifespans, overpopulation, deforestation... where does it end?

 

Just playing devil's advocate here.

 

And one other question... what exactly is a 'severly reduced lifespan' and what makes it 'for no good reason'? If a person lives to a ripe old 35, then dies of a heart attack, is that 'severly reduced', and was poor lifestyle reason enough?

[pgrmdave]

'severly reduced' means just that, if they had not been afflicted with disease, they would be able to live longer. Someone choosing a poor lifestyle that dies of a heart attack is different from someone who dies because we thought that it wasn't important enough to do everything we can to help them.

[pgrmdave]

Survival of the fittest doesn't apply quite as well here as one would think. If we were able to cure the disease, neither the infected nor the uninfected would have any distinct advantage in life. Your argument of curing disease leading to over population is valid, until one takes it to its extreme. At what point do we allow medicine to help someone live? At what point do we tell people that it is better for them to die?