Pandemic Flu!

[Turtle]

___The flu pandemic of 1918 killed 50,000,000 to 100,000,000 people worldwide and by many accounts the world is overdue for another such disaster. Today in the mail my county sent me (and every county household) a warning advisory on preparing for just such an event.

___The letter suggested county officials are taking action, but listed none and went on about the dangers and how to prepare; they included an enclosure sheet from CDC with a checklist of supplies and recommended actions.

___Sounds like they expect hospitals to fill so fast it's really every family for themself. Here's a dandy link to get you to think:

http://www.pandemicflu.gov/

___How much do you know about pandemics? Do you plan to prepare? :shrug:

[Mercedes Benzene]

Honestly I do not believe we have to worry about another pandemic on the scale of the 1918 event you mentioned.

Technology has improved trememdously, and I think that if we act now, we can properly prepare for such an event.

I'm not worried, and I don't plan to do anything about it to prepare.

 

In case anyone is interested, here's what the government is doing to prepare:

http://www.pandemicflu.gov/plan/tab1.html

 

^^^same website that Turtle posted, just more specific!^^^

[Jay-qu]

I dont know much about them at all.. but I thought we where past that now :shrug: should be interesting to see what happens. Perhaps if the bird flu virus morphed to been able to transmit human to human it could prove to be a pandemic.

[Turtle]

I dont know much about them at all.. but I thought we where past that now :sun:

Given the increase in numbers and frequency of world wide travelers, we have never faced a greater danger from a pandemic. By all means read up.

Honestly I do not believe we have to worry about another pandemic on the scale of the 1918 event you mentioned.

Technology has improved trememdously, and I think that if we act now, we can properly prepare for such an event.

I'm not worried, and I don't plan to do anything about it to prepare.

No worry, but again we have considerable reason for concern. Not only do we have the spreading mechanism ramped up, but the Spanish flu emerged from nowhere. While the bird flu may not escalate to a pandemic, it is the unknown virus that is the greatest threat.

___No plans to prepare?! :cup: Why do anything at all to prepare for a longer life then? Why not stop brushing your teeth, going to school, stuffing your pie hole, bathing your buns!? I am not surprised by your comment in general, but specifically dissappointed. :shrug: From previous discussions on preparedness you are amoing the 75% that expect those 25% of us who have prepared to take care of you.

___That alone is reason for concern.:hihi:

[moosegal]

Just tiptoeing through.

This is a great read but unfortunately it doesn't answer the questions I have in the back of my mind. With all the solar activity, I have wondered if it would have any effect on germ and virus development.

 

After I get to ten post I'll come back and post the link to the site. :shrug:

[Jay-qu]

ok. In the extreme case to prepare I would make sure that my house was airtight, or at least maintains a positive pressure so that no outside contaminants can make it indoors. Ideally I would grow hydroponic foods, and live off that and other stored supplements, minimising my exposure to the outside.

But if my area was not under direct threat, I would make sure I avoided public areas, toilets, gatherings, any contact with strangers.

[moosegal]

Back. Here's the link.

 

http://www.nasca.org.uk/Strange_Maps/virus/virus.html

[Turtle]

Just tiptoeing through.

This is a great read but unfortunately it doesn't answer the questions I have in the back of my mind. With all the solar activity, I have wondered if it would have any effect on germ and virus development.

It is not a question of if, but how, when ,where, & other such qualifiers. Inasmuch as viruses appear suddenly & without previous study, the question of Solar influence is a non sequitur.

ok. In the extreme case to prepare I would make sure that my house was airtight, or at least maintains a positive pressure so that no outside contaminants can make it indoors. Ideally I would grow hydroponic foods, and live off that and other stored supplements, minimising my exposure to the outside.

Do you joke me?:D You seem to allow preparing is a good idea, but then give an unrealistic plan as if to joke it off. A pandemic is an extreme case and it is a likely scenario. What concerns me the most is the majority of people's plan is to take advantage of the preparations of others.

Take some self responsibility & put together a disaster kit for pandemic or any unexpected disaster. Add a few things every month for the next 6 months and then you have prepared. Why would you not?:eek2:

[Jay-qu]

What makes you think I was joking?

[Turtle]

What makes you think I was joking?

I've had the flu & I'm not thinking clearly:hyper: , or I find youngsters like to make the joke of me without my knowledge.:hihi: At my age, that includes about everyone.:doh: :eek2: :eek: :D

At any rate, I suggest you check out the links I gave for a practical list of supplies & measures for preparing for a pandemic or other disaster. Suddenly growing your own food in your house is not on any of them; no kidding!:)

[Jay-qu]

ok, links checked.. I would much rather fresh food, but desperate times call for desperate measures.. Just looking down the list of medical supplies, most of it we already have, the rest is very easily obtainable - my mums a nurse :)

[Zythryn]

While Jay's idea of hydroponics isn't on any of the lists, I think it is an exceptional idea.

 

Think about it, you are growing your own food so the food aspect is resolved. More importantly, you eliminate the need to dive into large groups of people to get food (supermarkets, national guard handing out supplies, etc). Avoiding large groups of people cuts down on your chances of being infected.

 

Now, I don't think I could live off hydroponically grown food and would not be able to set up a system by the time I found out about the pandemic. Relocating to a less populated area and having hunting supplies may be another option.

[CraigD]

___How much do you know about pandemics? Do you plan to prepare?

How much can you know about a future pandemic? They’re critically sensitive to both the biology of their disease pathogens, and to lots of social factors such as travel, sanitation, and the economics of vaccine manufacturing and use.

 

I kid turtle not – I think the single most important preparation for a pandemic is ingraining the practice of hand-washing, and the related practice of not touching your face (especially your mouth and nose) with you hands unless you have recently washed them. If you’ve worked in a hospital, you’ve likely been trained in this and more exotic hygiene practices such wearing a surgical mask.

 

The current pandemic threat, avian flu, is transmitted by contact with birds or things that birds come in contact with, such as bird droppings (feces). In the event of a pandemic, where human=to-human transmission has occurred, human feces, on surfaces and in sewage, and possibly (in a near worst-case scenario) “droplet transmission” from sneezing and coughing, are likely to be the major vectors. Practices that prevent the hand-to-mouth/nose transfer of the virus should be effective for the most likely vectors, and masking against droplet transmission (although viruses are much to small to be stopped by a simple paper filter mask, the droplets of fluid they’re usually carried in can be stopped by them).

 

Good hand-washing is largely a matter of taking your time and being thorough. Any soap is good for it, as long as it is slick and easy to apply. Not handling your face requires a change in behavior (even people who aren’t thought of as thumb-suckers or nose-pickers often touch their faces, usually without being aware they’re doing it). The paper masks you can buy at hardware/lumber stores to prevent inhaling construction dust are effective hygienic masks, as are washable cloth masks (which anyone who can sew would have no problem making), and, of course, paper masks from medical supply companies.

 

Pandemic survival is different than surviving natural disasters such as floods and earthquakes, in that one may need to do it for months or years, not days or weeks, and its unlikely that government will provide financial help to people who take measures like avoiding their workplaces, or fleeing to the country. Even in a severe, high-mortality pandemic, you’ll likely have to contend with ordinary economic survival – working, paying rent/mortgage, buying food, transportation, etc. – business as usual.

[InfiniteNow]

I see natural evolution of a pandemic far less likely than a biological attack initiated by some religiopolitical faction seeking to engender fear and control. So, while bird and other such flus evolve more naturally, my concern is with those molecular biologists who would use their skill to develop and discharge something far worse.

 

As for the folks who joke it off, it's tough to blame them. We do not enjoy living in a state of anxiety and fear, and we recognize that the vast majority of solutions available to us tend not to be sufficient. It's going to take a helluva lot more than a quality diet and good water to protect me from the things I've referenced above, and I can fully understand how someone would choose to live in a state of blissful ignorance (and intentional lack of attention) to get through each day... just hoping for the best.

 

I would like to see qualified researchers band together, with adequate funding, support, and encouragement, to discover ways to shield society from the biological artillery that others with similar funding and encouragement are presently developing.

 

...and that's nothing to sneeze at.

[Turtle]

How much can you know about a future pandemic?

I see now I should have added the qualifier "past" to the question. Those who are ignorant of the past are condemmed to repeat it, is what I had in mind.

 

I kid turtle not – I think the single most important preparation for a pandemic is ingraining the practice of hand-washing, and the related practice of not touching your face (especially your mouth and nose) with you hands unless you have recently washed them.

I love a joke I get!:confused: Furthermore, I agree on the hand washing. The sheet from CDC I received in the mail has hand washing as #1 on the list in the section on limiting the spread of infection.

...Pandemic survival is different than surviving natural disasters such as floods and earthquakes, in that one may need to do it for months or years, not days or weeks, and its unlikely that government will provide financial help to people who take measures like avoiding their workplaces, or fleeing to the country. Even in a severe, high-mortality pandemic, you’ll likely have to contend with ordinary economic survival – working, paying rent/mortgage, buying food, transportation, etc. – business as usual.

It is indeed a horse of a different color. The government seems to recognize this as the CDC flyer is recommending supplies for at least 2 weeks whereas their recommendations for other disaster preparedness kits usually specifies a 3 day kit. The mailing to all households I think reflects their understanding of how different a pandemic is from other disasters and acknowledges that usual services such as hospitals cannot cope with large numbers of people efficiently.

InfiniteNow

I see natural evolution of a pandemic far less likely than a biological attack initiated by some religiopolitical faction seeking to engender fear and control. So, while bird and other such flus evolve more naturally, my concern is with those molecular biologists who would use their skill to develop and discharge something far worse.

 

As for the folks who joke it off, it's tough to blame them. We do not enjoy living in a state of anxiety and fear, and we recognize that the vast majority of solutions available to us tend not to be sufficient.

Fortunately, many of the preparations for individuals have efficacy regardless of the source of the germ.

You bring a good point to bear concerning anxiety & fear that continues to flumox me, and that is that one needn't prepare out of irrational emotion. It's just plain common sense in my view. :confused:

[Boerseun]

Never before in the history of mankind have such concentrations of people existed like we see today in shopping malls, sports events, etc. People concentrate in downtown areas in office buildings, only to go home to their separate suburbs after hours. From there, diseases spread to schools, through air travel across borders, everywhere almost at once. And there's not a lot we can do about it.

 

Even a virus much, much less potent than the 1918 flu virus would have disasterous effects today, hospitals and clinics would fill up faster than they could cope with. Besides - there's about four times as many people on Earth today than in 1918. And we can't have enough innoculation medicine on hand for every possible flu strain - we simply won't have enough storage space.

 

A repeat of 1918 is, in my mind, a very real possibility. And, I think, there's not a heck of a lot we can do about it - you'll have to be a 100% self-supporting recluse in order to escape all chances of infection. But you can significantly reduce your chances of infection, and I think there's also quite a lot that municipalities can do in the event of an outbreak.

 

For instance, provide water fountains with soap in sidewalks and inside shopping malls so that people can wash hands (as stated in previous posts). But there are also plenty other things, like guardrails and handrails at public staircases, for instance. DON'T TOUCH THEM! In the event of a serious outbreak, Town Councils could, for instance, remove all public handrails. All escelators could have an attachment fitted to the rubber handrail that dips it through an ammonia solution once every cycle to kill viruses. Elevators could have their button pads removed, to be replaced by either voice recognition systems, or some other system that doesn't require physical contact. Governments have been distributing free condoms for years to prevent the distribution of AIDS. They could, in the face of a flu pandemic, distribute free sets of latex gloves to use in shopping or whenever contact can't be avoided. The death toll of such an outbreak would be much higher than anything anticipated from AIDS, in any case.

 

There are lots of things that individuals could do, mostly through understanding the mechanisms facilitating the spreading of the virus, and changing your behaviour accordingly. And there are even more things to be done that we can't even think of yet.

 

Any ideas?

 

Great thread, by the way, Turtle!

[Jay-qu]

Even though the 1918 pandemic was a terrible one, still not every person was affected. Not all the un-affected people could have avoided the virus altogether, so perhaps it would be ultimately usefull if you where as healthy as you could be and took supplements to make your immune system as strong as it could be thus giving it the best chance to fight it off naturally. This doesnt mean you would just walk around in crowded places once the pandemic has started, mearly that it gives you the best chance and surviving the initial 'surprise attack'.