There is No Equality

[Racoon]

Many people believe in human equality, however there is No equality according to Nietzshe. We live under a false concept that "all men are created equal"

 

"Equality is a human-created concept, bogus and ultimately corrupting"

 

For example, when we see a big fish swallowing a little fish we say: 'ahhh, theres such balance in nature. Only the fittest survive'

But when a big person does more or less the same thing to a little person, we say: 'You're evil and immoral. You should be thrown into prison as a criminal'.

 

Equality is phony and unnatural because just like big fish, some people are bigger, stronger, and smarter than others. - but are persecuted for acting like it.

 

Universal experience tells us that some people act like big fish all the time, so long as they have other human-created concepts like wealth, legal, or religious authority backing them up.

 

Equality is therefore also corrupting because it makes all of us Hypocrites. For following something we know (unconsciously or not) to be a lie.

 

According to Nietzche, tens of thousands of years ago, the smartest and strongest of any given group of humans naturally became their ruler.

or an Ubermensch/Superman.

 

Consequently, the jealous masses banded together and invented religion.

 

More to follow...

Reactions?

[Spiked Blood]

I agree that men are not created equal. However, just because you are more talented in a particular field does not give you the right to treat anyone as inferior because they might have more talent than you in another area.

 

One man being physically stronger than another does not make them superior, how they use that physical advantage determines their superiority.

[automatic existence]

One man being physically stronger than another does not make them superior, how they use that physical advantage determines their superiority.

 

What if one would use the physical superiority to suppress others (i.e. be superior*)?

 

----------------------------------

*at least treat the other(s) as inferior

 

 

Might is right.

If you had unlimited strength and could not be harmed by anyone, lets just say there would be no reason for you to play by the rules. And unless the "weak masses" or "the forces that be" had encoded you with their "morality" you probably wouldn’t.

 

 

PS: Many people think "Hollow Man" is a shitty film, but it is superb at exposing this philosophical point. As in hollow morality. See it.

[hallenrm]

Agreed that all human beings do not have thee same capability to do a particular job' some can do some jobs more efficiently than others. But every human being is gifted with some traits, so it is inhuman to treat someone unequally. It is a result of certain historical circumstances that some traits were valued more than others!!!:fly:

[automatic existence]

it is inhuman to treat someone unequally.

 

Who are you to judge?

 

Or did I miss a meeting? A lot of people confuse how they want things to be and how things actually are. Considering what kind of forum we are on that’s a little frightening. I see absolutely no evidence that humans are equal or that they should be treated that way. That doesn’t mean I’m an evil Satanist, it just means I gather evidence, then conclusions, not the other way around.

 

Why does almost everyone believe that people should be treated equally and human? Good Question. First of all; Specism. Why don’t we think all other species should be treated as equally as us? All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others. I’ll tell you why, it because its an inherent trait of evolution to make species more friendly to each other than to other species. A strategic move if one wants to survive. (There has been speculation on whether this might be one reason for racism, a trait which surely have “benefited” the white man.)

 

Okay so lets look at most peoples logic:

a) People have NEVER treated each other equally and doesn’t seem to have ANY intensions of doing so.

:confused: One of the most prevalent features of our society is inequality, ether if you look at race, gender, economics status, haircut or what have you.

c) It has ALWAYS been this way.

 

Now, obviously, the only possible and logical conclusion based on these premises is that people are meant to be treated equally.

Oh, god, please stop people from making this **** up.

And it’s not really necessary to bring Nietzsche into this, but now that I got around to reading the first post I more or less agree with what you say. But “they” didn’t only create religion to “even things out,” the people with “slave morality”, as he calls it, conspired against those above morality in a myriad of ways. They created laws, they created social norms and standards. In other words, made life hell for “us” Übermensch-es.

[Tarantism]

why should equality exist? survival of the fittest works, and i personally dont want the incompitent spreading their genes :confused:

[C1ay]

We live under a false concept that "all men are created equal"

Only because that phrase has been taken out of context.

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.....

 

Declaration of Independence

The unalienable rights of man, Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness are equal, not their abilities or characteristics. Throughout the years, men have tried to quote this phrase in other contexts to further a political viewpoint. Don't allow yourself to be a victim of the misinformation of politicians....

[Boerseun]

Throughout the years, men have tried to quote this phrase in other contexts to further a political viewpoint. Don't allow yourself to be a victim of the misinformation of politicians....

Be that as it may, I think Rac's got a few good points, here.

 

And I think the current-day glorification of mediocrity is also attributable in a big way to the misunderstanding of what is meant by 'equality' amongst humans.

 

Imagine - we'll have to reduce everything imaginable to the standards of the lowest common denominator, in order to be inclusive of everybody. Does this remind you of anything?

 

We should face reality. Some people were, indeed, born stupid. However non-pc this might seem. They have no aspirations of becoming rocket scientists, nor the ability. But we shouldn't lower our educational standards to their mental capacity simply because they have the right to do so?

 

Or am I being a nazi about this?

[pgrmdave]

I think C1ay is right - people are not equal, never have been and never will, but that inequality does not mean that we can remove their rights. We shouldn't lower our education standards for stupid people, but we shouldn't prevent them from trying to learn. We shouldn't lower the physical requirement for joining the armed forces for the disabled, but if they are able to complete them, they should be able to join.

[C1ay]

I simply pointed out that the phrase "all men are created equal" is true in the context of it's origin, the Declaration of Independence.

 

The problem arises when people quote that phrase and twist it, to mean something that it doesn't, to achieve a political goal. They'll point out that we should treat everyone the same as you point out or that everyone should be able to achieve the same thing regardless of physical limitations. Some use it to argue rights to gifts from the public treasury, that everyone should have a minimum right to this or that no matter what.

 

Yeah, in reality we're all different, none of us are really equal.

[Kriminal99]

Difference between people and animals in terms of physical struggles

 

I disagree. Fish and people are not the same things.

 

People are intelligent beings. If a big person pushes a little person, the little person can pull out a magnum and shoot the big person. He can even blow up a large number of people with a bomb. Size does not matter. Numbers do not even matter as much as it does with animals.

 

Even if a person is not capable of these things at first, they can train themselves to be more capable. In this sense all people are equally dangerous - they all have infinite potential.

 

Live by the sword, die by the sword

 

Sometimes we watch movies where some action hero defeats or kills tons of enemies and consider that this person must be more powerful than his adversaries. However there are several reasons why this does not defeat any concept of equality. The obvious one being that TV and movies are not reality. Another more important one is that no matter how good you are at something you still lose sometimes. When the game you play is exerting physical force over other people, you only lose once and then you are dead. So even being a great fighter doesn't get you very far.

 

Bruce Lee broke his back in a fight to what many consider to have been a lesser opponent. Steve Irwin died to a stingray, only the third person in Austrailia to have done so after handling many dangerous animals. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Many many stories contemporary, historical and other wise have taught us this lesson. The one thing that all of these stories have in common is that someone made a life out of using physical force to impose their will on other intelligent beings or even animals at the expense (or at least to the dismay) of said intelligent beings or animals and eventually dying or being seriously hurt for it.

 

What we learn from this is that at the same time a person demonstrates his greater than average physical power he exposes himself to greater than average risk of random violent death. And again only at a given time can a person be thought of to be more powerful than others... being seen as powerful in the short term encourages both people of equal strength to challenge you as well as causing less powerful people to realize more of their potential and become more of a threat to you. This reinforces the perhaps less than perfect balance of power between people. Do we really need to see this play out over and over again to reach the same result or...

 

Lets skip the fighting and reach the inevitable conclusion

 

In the real world the small guy can't pull out a magnum and shoot the big guy without fear of being arrested and put in jail. Thats because people know that nobody really wins power struggles in the long run, and instead all made a pact to disallow any person to exert their will at the expense of others using physical force. The police represent this pact and recognition that physical violence makes life miserable for everybody in the long run. Thats why the big guy who pushes the little guy is a criminal.

 

He couldn't possibly defeat every member of this non violence pact or everyone who doesn't like to be pushed around. Or the police, who represent these 2 parties. If he tries, then yeah label him a criminal and make an example out of him. You have to do it to make the world more stable and therefore a better place for everyone else.

 

Power in the workplace - an example

 

Lets say you have the President of a company. He works for a Banking corporation called BankSouth and implemented many procedures that he believes help the success of his company in a complicated manner. One of those is that all employees must wear name tags to promote interpersonal relations with one another. One day on his way out of a conference in an office above a branch he walks out and a random bank teller tells him to put on his name tag so people know who he is.

 

Here are a few things to consider about the situation.

 

If he is the owner of the corporation, and he fails to comply with the tellers request and/or fires the teller out of anger he has done several things which remove his power. He has lowered employee morale, acceptance of his policies etc. If he was correct in asserting that the name tags where beneficial he has hurt the company in not wearing his as well as lowering confidence in the idea. If he fires the teller he has artificially lowered the labour supply (thus increasing the amount of money that has to be paid to get a teller that complies with his ego) as well as artificially increasing the amount of money spent on training. A similar corporation with a President that had a higher maturity level would be at an advantage in comparison.

 

If instead he just works for the company, he must consider that if he was chosen as president it was because he was deemed most capable of finding ways to benefit the company. It is not the case that because he was made President anything he says must be what most benefits the company. Abusing his position to satisfy his personal whims does not benefit the corporation.

 

What this demonstrates is that these people actually have no inherent power. Instead it is in fact ideas that carry their power, and these people only share in that power to the degree to which they adhere to those ideas.

 

If they deviate, they lose their job or their company is driven into the ground. It is true that the firing of one bank teller by the President of the company might not cause a large company to fail against its competitors, but then if the president does it once, why wouldn't he do it all the time?

 

Summary - Balance of physical power causes balance everywhere

 

The above situation exists in a world where physical power is balanced. Noone can take what they want from each other. So in order for a corporation to become powerful it must benefit many many people so that those people WANT to benefit the corporation. In order to benefit from it's employee's labour it must benefit the employees such that said employees want to help the company.

 

All human interaction between any Person A and his fellow man can be reduced to one of the following three types.

 

1) Person A benefits at the expense of others - Person A is a criminal and will be stopped

 

2) Person A benefits himself as much as others - Person A is a buisness man and everyone wins.

 

3) Person A benefits others at the expense of himself - off topic

 

My claim is that any situation where it appears that a person is exerting power over others (seemingly at the expense of those others) to benefit themselves, it is actually some idea that is exerting the power. All such ideas derive their power from the non violence pact and the desire to benefit the most amount of people. Judges look like they rule the courtroom but they must follow the law which protects all people.

 

Any deviation from this model will eventually be punished.

[InfiniteNow]

Yeah, in reality we're all different, none of us are really equal.

Curiously, this is something which makes us all the same.

[Racoon]

Only because that phrase has been taken out of context.

 

The unalienable rights of man, Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness are equal, not their abilities or characteristics. Throughout the years, men have tried to quote this phrase in other contexts to further a political viewpoint. Don't allow yourself to be a victim of the misinformation of politicians....

 

 

I must take exception to your reference Clay..

While the Constitution was primarily influenced by Thomas Jefferson, he meanwhile kept scores of slaves....

 

He was writing that all men are equal, yet continued the practice of slavery.

[automatic existence]

He was writing that all men are equal, yet continued the practice of slavery.

 

And thus;

 

All men are created equal' date=' but some men are more equal than others.[/quote']

[HydrogenBond]

Survival of the fittest is not the best means of survival. The best example of this is to look at elementary school. The bigger and stronger boys could wipe out all the knurds at a young age. Many of the knurds will peak later in life to become leaders in science and industry. At that point they could have the revenge of the knurds, wiping out all the future sport stars and all the future's skilled labor force.

 

Sometimes culture isn't the best judge of its own future. It may stress arts before science or sports before intellect, soldiers before farmers, religion before capitalists, etc. Under those conditions, progression of culture is determined by temporal selfish advantage stacking the deck, and not what is the best for the collective future.

 

We are not all equal, but culture is best served by equal priority of our natural talents. Under certain cultural conditions anyone can be among the fittest. The best culture tries to make everyone fit for something. Often social equality is based on a stacked deck and the social call to help fit round pegs in square holes.

[C1ay]

I must take exception to your reference Clay..

While the Constitution was primarily influenced by Thomas Jefferson, he meanwhile kept scores of slaves....

 

He was writing that all men are equal, yet continued the practice of slavery.

That he violated their rights does not mean they weren't entitled to them. All men have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That it is an unalienable right does not mean that it's a right immune to violation. Any right can be violated. In that era slaves were considered 2/3 a person and their natural rights were violated.

[hallenrm]

I am reminded of an old poem by Mohammad Iqbal, a great Urdu poet and philosopher in this context.

 

The English translation of the poem "The mountain and the squirrel" is as follows:

 

A mountain was saying this to a squirrel

"Commit suicide if you have self-respect

 

You are insignificant, still so arrogant, how strange!

You are neither wise, nor intelligent! not even shrewd!

 

It is strange when the insignificant pose as important!

When the stupid ones like you pose as intelligent!

 

You are no match in comparison with my splendor

Even the earth is low compared with my splendor

 

The grandeur of mine does not fall to your lot

The poor animal cannot equal the great mountain!"

 

On hearing this the squirrel said, "Hold your tongue!

These are immature thoughts, expel them from your heart!

 

I do not care if I am not large like you!

You are not a pretty little thing like me

 

Everything shows the Omni-potence of God

Some large, some small, is the wisdom of God

 

He has created you large in the world

And He has taught me climbing large trees

 

You are unable to walk a single step

Only large size! What other greatness have you?

 

If you are large show me some of the skills I have

Show me how you break this beetle nut as I can

 

Nothing is useless in this world

Nothing is bad in God's creation