Insomnia!

[Boerseun]

So, what's the deal with insomnia?

 

We discussed it in another thread and before we hijack the thread any further, I thought I'd rather start up a new one.

 

So here's the lowdown:

 

Tormod reckons sleeping pills works wonders for his insomnia. I've had it a few times in my life, and the sleeping pills actually woke me up further! I tried around three different brands and then gave up - but there are plenty of'em on the market, so, like the bossman said it might simply be a trial and error kinda thing, and I just had bad luck with mine.

 

But - to cut a long story short, what are your experiences with insomnia, and solutions? And how do you guys react to sleeping pills?

[Tormod]

It took me years before I even considered sleeping pills. I had some sort of aversion for them - thinking that taking sleeping pills would somehow make me an addict.

 

Let me share my story, it might be relevant for others (if you fall asleep reading this, consider it a gift).

 

Considering that I had already struggled with chronic asthma since birth it seems a bit strange to me (in hindsight) that I was so opposed to taking sleep medication but it was a big hurdle for me.

 

So I tried everything. As long as I can remember, I've had problems falling asleep. I can vividly remember being awake at night even before I started school back in 1977!

 

I was a very active person in my youth, playing volleyball 5-7 days a week, running, playing in bands, etc, etc, but the two things that have been following me forever have been the astma and the insomnia.

 

In college the insomnia started to become a *real* problem. Up until then I really didn't think too much about it - I was used to not falling asleep and would often sit up late programming computers or watching TV (I consider myself very lucky to have been a teenager during the satellite TV revolution in the 1980s :) ).

 

But in college I started missing the early classes and having problems concentrating etc. I didn't even realize that my sleeping problems had anything to do with it at first, because I was so used to not sleeping. I could go 2-3 weeks without getting *any* sleep, and in the end I'd be so worn out that I would simply either catch a cold and stay in bed for a few days (quite common for me - I used to blame the asthma but more likely it was due to the lack of sleep) or I would manage to get some sleep for a couple of nights.

 

There have been brief periods when the problems have been less severe, but I don't think I had a single night during 1990-2004 where I actually slept more than 5 hours.

 

When I began working after college, the problem got even worse. I was lucky, in a sense, that my work was quite flexible and I could show up at 10 am - but this was a double edged sword because I would work until late in the evening before I went home. I remember very little apart from working in the years 1995-2001.

 

Partly it was because I (out of sheer madness) started my own company with a friend back in 1997, which required endless work. I slept very little and worked my *** off. The only thing that kept me going was probably training (I worked out every morning) and junk food (lots of energy).

 

But in 1999 I really hit the wall. Bonked completely. I freaked out. I was simply sitting at my desk one day, realizing that this could not go on. I was on sick leave for 6 months. I could not sleep, felt sick, and in general was completely out of whack. The doctor told me I was burnt out and that I simply needed rest.

 

It was the beginning of 4 years of psychiatric treatment, medical exams, migraine problems (I ended up also getting diagnosed with chronic migraine so that's three chronic diseases by now), and worst of all: strong anxiety and fear problems. This meant something completely new for me: taking pills against depression. This was a *huge* problem for me because it forced me to accept that something was very wrong, and that it was not something that would be easily fixed.

 

However, things were not all dark. After six months (just about the amount of time a person like me can survive without having something "real" to do) I got an attractive job as a senior advisor for a web company. I lasted 4 months...I was then headhunted for a manager job at an Internet startup. I lasted 6 months. I simply couldn't hold a job. I stressed out at the smallest change or unexpected event (and it really didn't help that the startup changed strategy every Friday and replaced the executives every month or so). In between the two jobs my first daughter was born (Christmas Eve, 2000).

 

In 2001 I started a new company which was a one-man thing. For two years I did consulting and odd jobs in the IT industry. It was exactly what I needed - I had no problems finding customers and after about a year I made quite a bit of money...but my sleeping problem had not improved. It was easy to fake it in business meetings (I always booked them for afternoons) and when I gave lectures or classes I would drink insane amounts of coffee to make sure I stayed awake. Eventually I hit the wall, again, although it was less severe because I had some clients who offered me long-term projects and who were not rabid about deadlines, so I lucked out slightly.

 

When I learned that my second daughter was coming I realized that this kind of living could not go on. I was suffering, my wife and family were suffering, my work was not top-notch, I got no exercise because I was too tired.

 

So I applied for a "real" job and in 2003 I started working in my current job. It was an attractive job, working as a web editor - it meant using lots of my skills and knowhow, and since it was a Government agency it also meant regular hours and regular payment (and no risk for getting fired). For the first time in 8 years I had a job that might not go away overnight.

 

I managed to get off the anxiety medication, but my sleeping problem was nowhere near solved. I would still battle with the bedsheets every night, and often came in late.

 

Luckily, my doctor started realizing that perhaps I was *not* just a burnt-out, anxious fella in the wrong business. Maybe I simply had a sleeping problem.

 

She recommended some sleeping pills to give me some time to get back on track. They would always work for, say, a week, which gave me 6-7 days of sleep. After that they stopped working. So we switched. And switched, and switched, until we found a combination of pills that 1) put me to sleep most nights and 2) helped me stay asleep until morning.

 

So for about three years now I have used the same combination of sleeping pills. I still have severe sleeping problems. This week I have slept on average 4 hours per night.

 

But the difference is that I know that I'll pull through this week and get some really good sleep this weekend. And then I'll fall into a good pattern for a while. And instead of sleeping 1 night out of 7, I now sleep well (meaning 6-8 hours) about 8 nights out of ten. It's a remarkable, life-changing situation for me. Yet on any given night you'll find me logged onto MSN at 2am in the morning.

 

How to conclude...

 

Well, there is no conclusion. I really tried everything. Acupuncture, chiropractors, herbal medicine, prozac varieties. I took up training on occasion, only to put it down again when I wore myself out.

 

Now, with the aid of sleeping pills, an understanding wife, a secure job, and a better understanding of my own situation, I can at least say I am in control. I eat healthy foods, I run, I spend time with my kids. I work less than before, and I am finding ways to enjoy life more. The pills help me live a "normal" life (whatever that is) and if I ever travel somewhere without them, I can't sleep for a second. I am an addict but I will keep looking for alternatives for the rest of my life.

[Boerseun]

Sheesh, T - I should consider myself lucky, then! My few bouts of insomnia were few and far between, and always associated with something weird like malaria; normally I sleep like a rock, whether I am stressed out or not!

 

Good post, by the way. I suppose there's no such thing as a 'standard' sleep regimen. Some people simply sleep more than others.

[Cedars]

Excellent post Tormod!

 

I have had stuggles with insomnia throughout my life and rode them out in the past. And yes, I too remember struggling for sleep before I even began school. A few months each year.... A year or two spread out by a few years. It got worse and worse until this last bout which lasted 1.5 years before I went in for help. The difference this time was I had a full time job rather than a temp job or stay at home mom job.

 

I did alot of the things you did. Supercharge on coffee, freaked out/became angry at the slightest changes, and I would add, I dreaded bedtime. Every night going to bed exhausted but after a few minutes sleep (on the nights I did drift off) waking up for hours. Slightest noise at night would disrupt what sleep I would get. Getting back to sleep 1-2 hours before the alarm. Getting up exhausted. Upping the number of scoops of coffee in the coffee maker for the morning charge. Getting ragged on by co-workers who said the coffee at work was getting crunchy cuz it was so thick.... and expecting that eventually I will be so exhausted I will get some sleep. Not being able to concentrate. Brain dead....

 

I finally went into the doctor because I nearly got into car accidents and missed exits and turns on my way home. 3 missed turns in one drive was the final straw. I was gonna get killed or kill someone. Then I got told I should have come in within the first few months of this. Max to let a sleeping issue go is 6 months and thats really stretching it.

 

It took me a few different med combinations to straighten out my sleeping also. I was super lucky to have the doctor I did. I was able to call up and leave messages with the nurse between appointments to get meds adjusted. And I had a bunch of sick time saved up so I avoided work for a week at a time. Go in on monday and then call in the rest of the week until adjustments were working. My doctor was really good about giving me out slips during this adjustment period.

 

A doctor that isnt willing to work with you and adjust meds/change meds isnt the kind of doctor you want for this issue. A doctor that recommends herbal teas or getting more exercise isnt taking sleeping issues seriously.

Some sleeping pills wont work for you.

Some depression meds do help with sleeping issues.

Some meds will cause temporary side effects and an additional (often temp med) will get you thru this. I experienced panic attacks/anxiety attacks for around 14 days that I took a different med, as needed for.

Some meds will need to be increased after a month or two to remain effective. Often one jump in dosage will be enough to bring the balance back.

It will probably take a few months (or more) before the effects of the past insomnia go away.

Dont cancel your appointments!

[Tormod]

Great post, Cedars! Yes, if you get a doctor who is not willing to work with the problem then you're stuck. It is virtually impossible (IMHO) to battle insomnia on your own. It is far too easy to think "if I just try this" and then ditch it after two days because you forget it or it really didn't work (or you had no idea how to apply it in the first place).

 

I can really empathize with the "bedtime stories", I still have many nights like that and it's simply horrible when it happens. Thank heavens it's not every night anymore.

[TheBigDog]

I feel like hell today. And lack of sleep is playing a role in it. But it is not just sleep, that is only one of the valiables. My diet lately has been nothing but comfort foods, probalby how I deal with stress that I don't want to admit I am feeling. I eat late at night so that my stomach is upset all night and when I do sleep, it is not restful. In all I have been so busy being busy that I have not been taking proper care of myself and now I am feeling it.

 

So I do not know if it is insomnia that I have, or if the insomnia I have is a result of other poor haibits I have at the moment. In any event, I have to make a change and fast. I am sore all over and feel like I have a cold coming on. I am so tired that I can barely stay awake at my desk. I think I am going home early and going to bed.

 

Not much of a post in retrospect. Sorry if you read this and I wasted your time.

 

Bill

[Tormod]

Go for a walk! It will cheer you up mate. And that will make you feel better.

[maikeru]

I haven't had frequent insomnia, but I found that when I worked long hours in a research lab late into the night, I started to have messed up sleep which eventually turned into insomnia. It gradually went away with a regular exercise schedule (running, weights, and ballroom dance), which leaves me tired late at night and causes me to fall asleep about 2-3 hours earlier than I normally would otherwise, and to eat more healthy foods. Also, I try to avoid coffee, tea, etc. about 3-4 hours before bed, because caffeine can stay in the body for 4-6 hours. Have never been on pills. Also, sleep patterns & the circadian rhythm, I discovered, are regulated in part by the amount of bright light we're exposed to. More bright light tells the brain that it's still daytime, and so our brain won't get as ready to shutdown at night. Can try to dim the lights to compensate for this.

[Tormod]

Also, sleep patterns & the circadian rhythm, I discovered, are regulated in part by the amount of bright light we're exposed to.

 

This is a classic problem here up north. Right now it gets dark before 4pm, so it feels like evening 6 hours too early.

[moo]

My problem usually isn't going to sleep, it's staying asleep. Slept 3 hrs last night, then lay there for 2 more before giving up.

 

Lol, sleeping like a baby isn't supposed to mean waking up every 3 hrs crying...

:shrug:

 

moo

[Drip Curl Magic]

I've had slight insomnia problems for most of my life. Nowhere near as bad as you, T.

 

But I've definately got enough of a problem to where I'm being bogged down greatly.

 

 

Today, I missed class. I couldn't wake up. I slept through my alarm for the first 4 minutes that it was going off. And I'm usually a light sleeper.

 

I ride my bike 50 miles a week. I eat very little. I've started to resort to dumpster diving to eat. So, needless to say, my diet is poor.

 

College is tough. I go to school 4 days a week. I rarely finish all of my homework. I have poor concentration. Partially due to sleep deprivation. Partially due to not eating very much.

 

 

I just moved out on my own, and I'm already a month behind on my rent.

 

 

I lay down at night to sleep... and it's just.... hard. I'm sure it has something to do with the combination of stress and lack of food.

 

 

I'm really not sure what to do with myself. I wake up every morning, and I've already got dark circles under my eyes.

 

 

If I had health insurance, I'd go to the doctor. But I don't. And it doesn't look like I can apply for health insurance again until january or february.

 

 

I feel my life starting to crumble around me. My sleeping habits are getting worse.

[Tormod]

This is a classic problem here up north. Right now it gets dark before 4pm, so it feels like evening 6 hours too early.

 

I got those figures wrong...it gets dark around 6pm right now. The sun sets around 5pm and gets up around 8-9am (-ish). It's pitch dark when I leave for work at 7:00am.

[Tormod]

I eat very little.

 

...

 

I'm really not sure what to do with myself.

 

Man, this is not good. :D First of all you need to eat well.

 

Frankly, it sounds to me as if you're going through a depression. Any chance you can get to talk to a shrink? When I was in college they had a free service which I used a couple of times. It really helped get me back on my feet when I needed it.

[Drip Curl Magic]

mmmm, it's quite possible. I was planning on going to my main office tomorrow to ask about job opportunities on campus. I'll ask about any sort of free counciling or shrink services that the campus may offer.

[Monomer]

I was a very hyperactive baby and drove my parents crazy because I wouldn't sleep, but then I finally slept and slept well until the end of high school. I had both sleep onset and sleep maintenance insomnia for about 15 years and tried everything the books told me to do - light exercise before bed, a calming bath before bed, warm milk, peanut butter on toast, no caffeine in the evening, relaxation music, herbal tablets, writing down eveything on my mind before bed... everything but the sleeping pills which I was completely against.

 

But nothing worked, and life got worse. I was tired and grumpy, making lots of mistakes at work, letting go of friendships and generally hating life. I tried to find new and fun activities to do to raise my spirits, but they were only temporary solutions.

 

Finally my marriage broke down and I hit rock bottom. One day I couldn't get out of bed and I couldn't stop crying, so I was dragged to the doctor who pronounced me clinically depressed and prescribed anti-depressants and sleeping pills. The sleeping pills completely knocked me out and I woke up the next morning feeling drugged and very ill. I couldn't move and I couldn't speak more than two words at a time. It took me half the day to recover.

 

I stopped taking the sleeping pills and kept going with the anti-depressants which helped initially. However, I had to stop taking the anti-depressants because they began making me ill and contributing to the insomnia.

 

I found a counsellor to talk to and to help me work through lots of issues. I got over the depression, found a new job and a new supportive husband and I now feel a lot better about life and I actually sleep at night. I don't always have really great sleeps (I think my mattress and pillow are responsible), but at least it's around 7 - 8 hours rather than 4 or 5 a night. So for me now it's about maintaining a healthy and active lifestyle and trying to be more positive and philosophical about life. I'm naturally inclined to negativity and depression so I need to keep that in check otherwise the insomnia starts to creep back in.

[maikeru]

I've had slight insomnia problems for most of my life. Nowhere near as bad as you, T.

 

But I've definately got enough of a problem to where I'm being bogged down greatly.

 

 

Today, I missed class. I couldn't wake up. I slept through my alarm for the first 4 minutes that it was going off. And I'm usually a light sleeper.

 

I ride my bike 50 miles a week. I eat very little. I've started to resort to dumpster diving to eat. So, needless to say, my diet is poor.

 

College is tough. I go to school 4 days a week. I rarely finish all of my homework. I have poor concentration. Partially due to sleep deprivation. Partially due to not eating very much.

 

 

I just moved out on my own, and I'm already a month behind on my rent.

 

 

I lay down at night to sleep... and it's just.... hard. I'm sure it has something to do with the combination of stress and lack of food.

 

 

I'm really not sure what to do with myself. I wake up every morning, and I've already got dark circles under my eyes.

 

 

If I had health insurance, I'd go to the doctor. But I don't. And it doesn't look like I can apply for health insurance again until january or february.

 

 

I feel my life starting to crumble around me. My sleeping habits are getting worse.

 

Your story sounds very familiar. You might be suffering from some sort of low-level depression as Tormod suggested. If you need to, see a psychologist or therapist.

 

When I started to suffer from insomnia, I slipped into depression. I'd never had depression until I got into college and had to live in a manner similar to what you described. I was working at a research lab + taking a full load of classes. Didn't have time to eat and sleep well because I was required to work really late, started to get behind on homework, etc. It takes a toll, and one which can affect you for months or years afterward. It took me nearly half a year to feel like I recovered, and I had to stop schooling during that time. I don't recommend it. Sleep and a good diet are very important to maintain your health and your sanity.

 

If you need something quick to try to help with your depression, look for foods rich in omega-3 fatty acids, such as fatty fish (salmon, trout, etc.), eggs, certain nuts (walnuts and almonds, IIRC), flax seed/meal, or certain green veggies like spinach or broccoli. Having a bad diet may deprive your body of important omega-3's. Omega-3 fatty acids are used by the brain and immune system for proper functioning, and there's mounting evidence that a lack of omega-3's can cause or worsen depression as well as other health problems. Here are some links on omega-3's:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acids

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsSupplements/Omega3FattyAcidscs.html

 

A quick search on Google or NCBI's scientific article search engine turns up an impressive amount of studies that support the many health benefits of omega-3's.

[Drip Curl Magic]

My poor diet is mostly due to having very little money.

 

I'm trying to look into getting a job somewhere that will feed me as well as pay me.

 

I feel too weak to take on a bigger work load, but I need money to eat. Eating sufficiantly might make things a lot easier. I hope.

 

Does anyone know anything about programs that feed people for free or very very cheap? I think I've heard of places like that.... places that operate out of donations recieved from the community. I could probably qualify.

 

 

 

I also didn't even consider depression until today. Now, I'm noticing it. I'm starting to identify situations where I get kind of depressed for minor changes that occur throughout the day. When I need to split up with a friend, I tend to get a little depressed and scared for a little bit afterwards.

 

I think I may very well be going through mild depression.

 

also,

Bipolarity kind of runs in my family. And it seems like everyone in my family has slight mental health problems. But maybe it's normal to percieve your own family like that.