Is atheism a religion

[ughaibu]

It's not clear what you're trying to say:

1) you have no beliefs

2) this includes a lack of belief as to whether or not you are right in this discussion

3) you draw conclusions from evidence

4) on the evidence you have concluded that you're right about something

 

Is this correct so far?

If so, what is it that you've concluded that you're right about?

 

If you mean that you're right about having no beliefs, on what have you based that conclusion?

[imaplanck.]

It's not clear what you're trying to say:

1) you have no beliefs

2) this includes a lack of belief as to whether or not you are right in this discussion

3) you draw conclusions from evidence

4) on the evidence you have concluded that you're right about something

 

Is this correct so far?

If so, what is it that you've concluded that you're right about?

 

If you mean that you're right about having no beliefs, on what have you based that conclusion?

 

I am not basing my conclusions on "beliefs", I'm basing my conclusions on evidence.

[ughaibu]

Could you answer my question, please.

[imaplanck.]

It's not clear what you're trying to say:

1) you have no beliefs ?

...Correct

 

2) this includes a lack of belief as to whether or not you are right in this discussion

...Correct

3) you draw conclusions from evidence

...Correct

4) on the evidence you have concluded that you're right about something

...Not quite! I said 'based on the evidence I have concluded a high probability I am right about something'.

[ughaibu]

Okay, and the question in post 101 and the further questions in post 103?

[imaplanck.]

If so, what is it that you've concluded that you're right about? ?

...That a statement that 'athiests have a belief system' is a naive assumption.

 

If you mean that you're right about having no beliefs,

...Yes I do mean that, as I have said already.

 

on what have you based that conclusion?

.....Previous conclusion, and evidence.

[imaplanck.]

Okay, and the question in post 101 and the further questions in post 103?

 

I conclude a high probability that I have already answered post 101.:)

[ughaibu]

Okay, thanks for your patience.

There are a few points:

1) Conclusions require, apart from evidence, a method of drawing conclusions, this cant simply be comparitive to previous conclusions.

2) Once a conclusion is drawn it's held in the mind, there is no point making a conclusion about a certain thing if one will need to re-draw one's conclusion on every subsequent occasion of being confronted with that same thing. These conclusions held in the mind are "beliefs".

3) I conclude from the evidence of these couple of pages that you have concluded that this method of drawing conclusions from the evidence is reliable. This illustrates a different useage of "belief" in that the evidence suggests the conclusion that you believe in this evidence/conclusion approach.

4) The evidence from these two pages is small, yet I have evidence suggesting that you have drawn at least one false conclusion. This evidence casts doubt on your ability to draw conclusions from evidence and thus leads me to doubt your entire thesis, as that thesis is based on this process.

[imaplanck.]

Okay, thanks for your patience.

There are a few points:

1) Conclusions require, apart from evidence, a method of drawing conclusions, this cant simply be comparitive to previous conclusions. .

I disagree; alike conclusion from any good scientific theory, a conclusion can be drawn from a system 'absent of belief'.

2) Once a conclusion is drawn it's held in the mind, there is no point making a conclusion about a certain thing if one will need to re-draw one's conclusion on every subsequent occasion of being confronted with that same thing. These conclusions held in the mind are "beliefs".

No! not if you are defining belief as 'faith', they are not!

 

3) I conclude from the evidence of these couple of pages that you have concluded that this method of drawing conclusions from the evidence is reliable. This illustrates a different useage of "belief" in that the evidence suggests the conclusion that you believe in this evidence/conclusion approach.

"Reliable" by no means implies indisputability!

4) The evidence from these two pages is small, yet I have evidence suggesting that you have drawn at least one false conclusion. This evidence casts doubt on your ability to draw conclusions from evidence and thus leads me to doubt your entire thesis, as that thesis is based on this process.

I conclude that you are allowing your biases to alter your perception of said evidence. Are you theist, athiest or agnostic BTW? I see slight ambiguity in your thread postings.

[ughaibu]

1) vicious regress

2) standard useage

3) standard useage

4) your reply is irrelevant

[imaplanck.]

1) vicious regress

2) standard useage

3) standard useage

4) your reply is irrelevant

 

1) I conclude that you are an agnostic, am I right?

2) In that case, my reply would be "No!"

3) The way you are defining 'reliable' is indeed wrong. Reliable can fail.

4) I hazard you know you have lost the argument, but dont want to stop flogging your horse just yet. Or maybe I am overestimating your intelligence?:) Feel free to elaborate though.

[ughaibu]

During this discussion I have provided arguments (evidence) in support of the statement "all people hold a set of (mainly) consistent beliefs", you have claimed to have no belief about whether you are right or wrong in opposing this statement, yet despite having been unable to answer my arguments you now say "you have lost the argument". I conclude from the evidence that you hold an irrational belief that you have no beliefs.

[imaplanck.]

During this discussion I have provided arguments (evidence) in support of the statement "all people hold a set of (mainly) consistent beliefs",.

....And I have tested your argument and evidence, and personally conclude that you were naive, and are now just plain ignorant .

you have claimed to have no belief about whether you are right or wrong in opposing this statement, yet despite having been unable to answer my arguments.

I conclude that I have more than adequately rebuffed your arguments.

you now say "you have lost the argument".

I conclude from the evidence that you hold an irrational belief that you have no beliefs.

 

I conclude that you are the irrational one.

[ughaibu]

In post 110, I presented my concluding arguments, you have not answered them:

1) no answer

2) denial of standard useage, if you deny the language in which the argument is conducted, you leave the argument

3) irrelevant answer, the standard useage is of the word "believe", not of the word "reliable"

4) no answer

[imaplanck.]

In post 110, I presented my concluding arguments, you have not answered them:

1) no answer

2) denial of standard useage, if you deny the language in which the argument is conducted, you leave the argument

3) irrelevant answer, the standard useage is of the word "believe", not of the word "reliable"

4) no answer

 

1)That figures, I respect your prerogative though.

2)What are you talking about? I agreed with your definition and answered accordingly.;) Your failure to keep up is getting on my nerves now.

3) :) What??? Are you on the same planet as me? You know! the one called earth? I reiterate "the reliable can and has failed!" Your usage of the word "reliable" to suggest impossibility of failure, is wrong!

4)Figures.

[ughaibu]

I'm getting rather bored by this so you'll probably be on your own for a while after this one.

1) do you understand the term "vicious regress"? You can not explain A by appealing to A' as this leaves you with the same burden of explanation

2) I have demonstrated that by standard useage you hold a belief. If your objection to this is a claim that you do not hold any conclusions in your mind but re-form all conclusions for every occasion, this claim is demonstrated as false by your initial assertion in this discussion

3) belief does not require reliability, people believe in the power of prayer but they are aware that prayer is not 100% reliable

4) no have provided no response that is in any way relevant to this point

[imaplanck.]

...:) What ever you want to believe! go ahead! I'm done.