Clouds Come from Deep Space Too

[erich]

If this Particle Nucleation by cosmic rays proves out, doesn't it throw a giant monkey wrench into the present climate modeling?

 

I started several threads, in various science forums, titled " Lightning Comes from Space" citing Joe Dwyer's work at FIT on runaway cascade initiation of lightning from his observations of X-Rays and Y-Rays.

 

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?ch...F9683414B7FFE9F

 

Dwyer's paper:

http://www.lightning.ece.ufl.edu/PDF/Gammarays.pdf

 

Looks like I'll have to update them with " Clouds Come from Space Too"

 

 

cosmic rays & clouds:

 

http://spacecenter.dk/cgi-bin/nyheder-m-m.cgi?id=1159917791|cgifunction=form

 

NEWS from spacecenter.dk

 

October 4th 2006

Getting closer to the cosmic connection to climate

A team at the Danish National Space Center has discovered how cosmic rays from exploding stars can help to make clouds in the atmosphere. The results support the theory that cosmic rays influence Earth’s climate.

 

An essential role for remote stars in everyday weather on Earth has been revealed by an experiment at the Danish National Space Center in Copenhagen. It is already well-established that when cosmic rays, which are high-speed atomic particles originating in exploded stars far away in the Milky Way, penetrate Earth’s atmosphere they produce substantial amounts of ions and release free electrons. Now, results from the Danish experiment show that the released electrons significantly promote the formation of building blocks for cloud condensation nuclei on which water vapour condenses to make clouds. Hence, a causal mechanism by which cosmic rays can facilitate the production of clouds in Earth’s atmosphere has been experimentally identified for the first time.

 

The Danish team officially announce their discovery on Wednesday in Proceedings of the Royal Society A, published by the Royal Society, the British national academy of science.

 

The experiment

 

The experiment called SKY (Danish for ‘cloud’) took place in a large reaction chamber which contained a mixture of gases at realistic concentrations to imitate the chemistry of the lower atmosphere. Ultraviolet lamps mimicked the action of the Sun’s rays. During experimental runs, instruments traced the chemical action of the penetrating cosmic rays in the reaction chamber.

 

The data revealed that electrons released by cosmic rays act as catalysts, which significantly accelerate the formation of stable, ultra-small clusters of sulphuric acid and water molecules which are building blocks for the cloud condensation nuclei. A vast numbers of such microscopic droplets appeared, floating in the air in the reaction chamber.

 

‘We were amazed by the speed and efficiency with which the electrons do their work of creating the building blocks for the cloud condensation nuclei,’ says team leader Henrik Svensmark, who is Director of the Center for Sun-Climate Research within the Danish National Space Center. ‘This is a completely new result within climate science.’

 

A missing link in climate theory

 

The experimental results lend strong empirical support to the theory proposed a decade ago by Henrik Svensmark and Eigil Friis-Christensen that cosmic rays influence Earth’s climate through their effect on cloud formation. The original theory rested on data showing a strong correlation between variation in the intensity of cosmic radiation penetrating the atmosphere and the amount of low-altitude clouds. Cloud cover increases when the intensity of cosmic rays grows and decreases when the intensity declines.

 

It is known that low-altitude clouds have an overall cooling effect on the Earth’s surface. Hence, variations in cloud cover caused by cosmic rays can change the surface temperature. The existence of such a cosmic connection to Earth’s climate might thus help to explain past and present variations in Earth’s climate.

 

Interestingly, during the 20th Century, the Sun’s magnetic field which shields Earth from cosmic rays more than doubled, thereby reducing the average influx of cosmic rays. The resulting reduction in cloudiness, especially of low-altitude clouds, may be a significant factor in the global warming Earth has undergone during the last century. However, until now, there has been no experimental evidence of how the causal mechanism linking cosmic rays and cloud formation may work.

 

‘Many climate scientists have considered the linkages from cosmic rays to clouds to climate as unproven,’ comments Eigil Friis-Christensen, who is now Director of the Danish National Space Center. ‘Some said there was no conceivable way in which cosmic rays could influence cloud cover. The SKY experiment now shows how they do so, and should help to put the cosmic-ray connection firmly onto the agenda of international climate research.’

 

Publication data

 

Published online in “Proceedings of the Royal Society A”, October 3rd

 

Title: ‘Experimental Evidence for the role of Ions in Particle Nucleation under Atmospheric Conditions’.

 

Authors: Henrik Svensmark, Jens Olaf Pepke Pedersen, Nigel Marsh, Martin Enghoff and Ulrik Uggerhøj.

 

For more information and supporting material: http://www.spacecenter.dk/media

Requests for interview and original article: [email protected]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Erich J. Knight

[Tormod]

Why exactly is it that every time someone finds out something new, it is considered by some to "throw a spanner in the works of (something)"?

 

Welcome to science. What they have presented is a theory.

 

And that Earth's climate is connected to cosmic radiation is nothing new - our atmosphere interacts with it every single day. Without the ozone layer, you would be fried by cosmic radiation before you got a chance to think twice.

[Michaelangelica]

Could you please send some down our way?

Things are getting desperate in the water department

[Turtle]

Interestingly, during the 20th Century, the Sun’s magnetic field which shields Earth from cosmic rays more than doubled, thereby reducing the average influx of cosmic rays.

 

First, the word "Sun's" which I bolded needs replacing with "Earth's", and then the correct myth is ready for contradiction. That is to say the Earth's magnetic field does not protect Earth from cosmic rays reaching the surface; the atmosphere does that. This thread well explores the issue:

http://hypography.com/forums/earth-science/2966-switching-poles.html

The Earth's magnetic field does contribute to reducing how much atmosphere is or is not stripped away from the planet by the solar wind.

Wrench accounted for Skipper.:cup:

[erich]

1: ozone protects against UV not cosmic rays

 

2: "Why exactly is it that every time someone finds out something new, it is considered by some to "throw a spanner in the works of (something)"?

 

Because, I think , they did mean "suns Magnetic field" protecting the whole solar system from high levels of cosmic rays,

 

 

http://spacecenter.dk/xpdf/influence-of-cosmic-rays-on-the-earth.pdf

[Zwirko]

Since the solar wind is electrically conductive, it can carry the Suns magnetic field way out to the chilly outer limits of the Solar System - this sphere of influence is often termed the "heliosphere". The heliosphere does indeed deflect most low energy cosmic rays that have an extra-solar or inter-galactic origin -- they never make it to earth.

 

I don't know, if the OP meant "Sun" or "Earth" however.

 

Additionally, since cosmic ray particles are electrically charged why wouldn't they be defelected by the earth's magnetic field? Those that are not deflected away (or are deflected to) the earth will mostly be absorbed in the atmosphere.

[Boerseun]

Quite interesting. But the effect of cosmic rays forming the cloud condensation nuclei is negligable if you take into account that macro-sized particles like dust and smoke is much better capable of supplying a platform for condensation - if only because they are much, much bigger than what the cosmic rays can supply.

 

The fact that cosmic rays can do it in the lab is rather cool, though. But I seriously doubt if they are the major contributor of condensation nuclei in the actual atmosphere. They might supply something like 0.000001% of the cloud feedstock, in my personal opinion.

[Turtle]

1: ozone protects against UV not cosmic rays

 

2: "Why exactly is it that every time someone finds out something new, it is considered by some to "throw a spanner in the works of (something)"?

 

Because, I think , they did mean "suns Magnetic field" protecting the whole solar system from high levels of cosmic rays,

 

 

http://spacecenter.dk/xpdf/influence-of-cosmic-rays-on-the-earth.pdf

 

While Tormod mentioned ozone, I simply said the atmosphere.

As to the Sun's magnetic field, it is mis-represented in the article you link to. To whit:

The number of dark spots on the Sun’s visible face increases and decreases

every 11 years or so, but the Sun’s magnetic field also reverses, so that a full cycle is about 22 years.

The Sun's magnetic field flips irregularly and not in sync with the 11 year cycle. The main page of spaceweather.com shows the current orientation updated whenever there is a flip. Scroll down and find it on the left side.

 

They have an associated explanation of the IMF (Interplanetary Magnetic Field) here.

:eek:

 

PS Contrails are known contributors to increasing cloud cover.:) :cup: , a factor not mentioned in the paper. The author's claim of a climax appears premature.

[Tormod]

1: ozone protects against UV not cosmic rays

 

It was just an example of interaction. UV radiation is a type of cosmic radiation after all. Another interaction is that between charged particles from the sun and our magnetosphere, which creates the auroras.

 

Cosmic rays are (mostly) absorbed in the atmosphere - which means the atmosphere interacts with it all the time. That clouds can be a result of this is interesting but not shocking.

 

I think that the impact this will have on weather forecasting is "absolutely nothing".

[erich]

More Earth and Space Weather Conections:

 

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2006/space_weather_link.html

 

 

First Global Connection Between Earth And Space Weather Found

 

09.12.06

 

 

Weather on Earth has a surprising connection to space weather occurring high in the electrically-charged upper atmosphere, known as the ionosphere, according to new results from NASA satellites.

 

"This discovery will help improve forecasts of turbulence in the ionosphere, which can disrupt radio transmissions and the reception of signals from the Global Positioning System," said Thomas Immel of the University of California, Berkeley, lead author of a paper on the research published August 11 in Geophysical Research Letters.

 

Researchers discovered that tides of air generated by intense thunderstorm activity over South America, Africa and Southeast Asia were altering the structure of the ionosphere.

 

 

Erich

[CraigD]

If this Particle Nucleation by cosmic rays proves out, doesn't it throw a giant monkey wrench into the present climate modeling?

As usual, erich brings a fascinating article to our attention. I think, though, that this research is more likely to be helpful to climate modeling, than wrench-in-the-works-like.

 

From its origins with the early (1940s), optimistic predictions of such folk as John von Neuman that computer-based mathematical climate modeling would be able to forecast weather and climate with near arbitrary precision for any future date, climate modeling was dealt a deflating body-blow when in the early 1960s, pioneering meteorologist Edward Lorenz demonstrated that such modeling was subject to what is now popularly known as the butterfly effect. Since then, mathematical meteorology seems to me to be an exciting, but humble and modest science, so tentative in its conclusions that there’s no great mechanical edifice into which a wrench could be thrown.

[erich]

Beautifully said Craig,

 

I feel a grand convergence is coming on with non-linier dynamics, mathematical meteorology, astro, plasma and nuclear physics.

Even particle physics may break in on this party with the LHC, certainly nano research is with quantum tunneling devices and novel PV cells.

 

 

 

It will be interesting when we know what % of cloud cover is created by CRs. If it is high, I hope the Republicans won't try to use it to obfuscate the dangers of Green house gases.

 

A reply from Mary fran, I've asked for her source, at http://www.kurzweilai.net/mindx/frame.html

 

 

Re: Clouds Come from Deep Space Too

posted on 10/12/2006 3:34 PM by maryfran^

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[Not MindX Material]

 

i have read that there is about a 20% connection of cosmic rays influencing the clouds cover, that is a cloudy day increase by approx 20 per cent when the cosmic ray flux is high… so compared with greenhouse gases the effect of cosmic rays on the earth climate is small.

 

… will this percentage of connection be much higher??

 

also the amount of cosmic rays that reach to the earth are in some way controlled by the variable and cyclic solar winds. then it is quite possible that humans are not the unique responsible for some of the observed temperature increases in the earth.

 

Also it is curious that the earth and us are influenced by all kind of cosmological events occurred in the past (cosmic rays from exploding stars, and other phenomena) that make our lifes are running in the “present time” linked to events occurred in a past-tense-universe.

 

 

mf

 

 

 

Erich

[erich]

Hot from MaryFran,her source:

 

hi

see if this can help

mf

 

“… cosmic rays. These high-energy particles originate in outer space and in solar flares, and can have a small but significant effect on the weather, increasing the chances of an overcast day by nearly 20 per cent.

Giles Harrison and David Stephenson from the University of Reading, UK, examined 50 years of solar radiation measurements from sites all over the country, enabling them to calculate daily changes in cloudiness. By comparing this data with neutron counts - a measure of cosmic ray activity - for the same period, the scientists have shown an unambiguous link between cosmic rays and clouds (Proceedings of the Royal Society A, DOI: 10.1098/rspa.2005.1628).

"The odds of a cloudy day increase by around 20 per cent when the cosmic ray flux is high," says Harrison, amounting to a few extra days of cloudiness per year.”

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18925365.700

[Boerseun]

20%!?!?!?! :)

 

That's amazing!

 

...and slightly higher than my estimated 0.000001% :doh:

 

No, really - that is quite amazing; not what I would have expected at all.

[CraigD]

Hot from MaryFran …

Out of curiosity, who is MaryFran? She/he/it appears to be a celebrity in the Ray Kurzweil internet community, but all I find associated with the name is a late TV actress well known in the 1960s and 70s.

[erich]

From the content and syntax of her postings on MindX, my guess is she is an academic, probably European.

[erich]

More variables to account for, all be it on a much longer time scale:

 

Earth’s wobbles may explain some extinctions, research finds

 

http://www.world-science.net/othernews/061011_orbit.htm