Clouds Come from Deep Space Too

[Michaelangelica]

More variables to account for, all be it on a much longer time scale:

 

Earth’s wobbles may explain some extinctions, research finds

 

http://www.world-science.net/othernews/061011_orbit.htm

Erich

Do you have a life?

No? me neither, look at this:-

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,220341,00.html

New Research Adds Twist to Global Warming Debate

 

Thursday, October 12, 2006

 

By Steven Milloy

 

A new study provides experimental evidence that cosmic rays may be a major factor in causing the Earth’s climate to change.

 

Given the stakes in the current debate over global warming, the research may very well turn out to be one of the most important climate experiments of our time – if only the media would report the story.

 

Ten years ago, Danish researchers Henrik Svensmark and Eigil Friis-Christensen first hypothesized that cosmic rays from space influence the Earth’s climate by effecting cloud formation in the lower atmosphere.

Their hypothesis was based on a strong correlation between levels of cosmic radiation and cloud cover – that is, the greater the cosmic radiation, the greater the cloud cover. Clouds cool the Earth’s climate by reflecting about 20 percent of incoming solar radiation back into space.

 

The hypothesis was potentially significant because during the 20th century, the influx of cosmic rays was reduced by a doubling of the sun’s magnetic field which shields the Earth from cosmic rays.

According to the hypothesis, then, less cosmic radiation would mean less cloud formation and, ultimately, warmer temperatures – precisely what was observed during the 20th century

.

How many threads do we have on Hypography re Global Warming now?

Could we start a thread that leads us to the threads???:hihi:

[CraigD]

New Research Adds Twist to Global Warming Debate

Thursday, October 12, 2006

By Steven Milloy…

One should view Fox News columnist Steven Milloy complains of the media’s failure to report on a ten-year-old scientific theory likely to increase public confusion and discredit the idea that human factors are adversely influencing the environment with considered skepticism. Milloy is a paid advocate for Phillip Morris, R. J. Reynolds Tobacco Company, and ExxonMobil, and has a history of politicized attacks on any scientific research that could be threatening to these interest groups. For a sense of the tone of his rhetoric, see his website, junkscience.com.

 

IMHO, Milloy is an anti-scientific disinfomationist, interested in emphasizing disagreement within the scientific community in order to promote the belief within the general public that all scientific conclusions should be ignored. I believe his work should be considered primarily an commercial promotion for the companies by whom he is employed.

[erich]

Absolutely! Craig,

It will be interesting when we know what exact % of cloud cover is created by CRs.

 

If it is high, One of my greatest fears is the Republicans trying to use it to obfuscate the dangers of Green house gases.

 

Thanks Michael for the confirmation, :cup: ;)

 

And yes, I Have a wonderful life, just a little busy right now, given my interest in plasma fusion, ADS, nano-insulation, nano solar & thermo electrics, Bio & solar H2 production, and ...........................................................................................................

 

After seeing your picture at the Permaculture forum, you must have a life!

Or Aussie men are blind.

 

Smart , Passionate, dedicated to world preservation AND gorgeous, I'm in love, but, I loved you when, ( and I have no idea where I got this perception), I thought you were some old man farmer from the outback.

 

Sincerely,

Erich

[TheFaithfulStone]

Re: Steve Milloy

 

What a quack.

 

The top link on his website is about how DDT shouldn't be banned, and how DDT eliminated malaria in America.

 

I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact that NOT ONE BIT OF THE CONTINENTAL US IS IN THE TROPICS!!

 

Good. God.

 

TFS

[Boerseun]

Not really. From the US Center for Disease Control:

The criteria for eradication as put forth by the National Malaria Society was: "Malaria may be assumed to be no longer endemic in any given area when no primary indigenous case has occurred there for three years".

 

The National Malaria Eradication Program, a cooperative undertaking by State and local health agencies of 13 Southeastern States and the Communicable Disease Center of the U. S. Public Health Service, originally proposed by Dr. L. L. Williams, commenced operations on July 1, 1947. The program consisted primarily of DDT application to the interior surfaces of rural homes or entire premises in counties where malaria was reported to have been prevalent in recent years. By the end of 1949, over 4,650,000 house spray applications had been made. Total elimination of transmission was slowly achieved. By 1951, CDC gradually withdrew from active participation in the operational phases of the program and shifted to its interest to surveillance, and in 1952, CDC participation in operations ceased altogether.

 

A major commitment was to the malaria control and assessment activities associated with the Tennessee Valley Authority. The advent of World War II necessitated the control of malaria in and around the many military bases located in malarious areas, primarily in Southeastern U. S. These efforts were so successful that at the end of the war and the founding of CDC, one of the initial tasks was to oversee the completion of the elimination of malaria as a major public health problem. In 1949, the country was declared free of malaria as a significant public health problem.

 

The role of CDC became one of surveillance within the U. S. and of assistance in the world-wide efforts to eliminate or control malaria in the economically underdeveloped areas of the world.

 

Malaria has been endemic in the US until the late 1940's. Most of the transmission occurred in the southeastern states. (From this derives the fact that CDC, originally derived from malaria control operations, is located in Atlanta, Georgia).

The US was quite malarial, it seemed. In the 1800's right up to the Canadian border! See the maps and graphs here.

 

Seems like there might be something to using DDT...

 

But that's beside the point. I think this guy's take on global warming being the result of less cloud cover due to less cosmic rays because of the sun's increased magnetic field protecting the Earth, is, well, a bit far fetched...

[TheFaithfulStone]

Well, I stand corrected. Thank you Boerseun.

 

TFS

[Michaelangelica]

IMHO, Milloy is an anti-scientific disinfomationist, interested in emphasizing disagreement within the scientific community in order to promote the belief within the general public that all scientific conclusions should be ignored. I believe his work should be considered primarily an commercial promotion for the companies by whom he is employed.

WOW

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CraigD again.

You must not like the guy!

 

It is so important to know where the messenger (sound bites, video bites) are coming from these days. In Australia this is not always easy to know the American connections Thanks for the tip.

 

Recently an ABC show Media Watch (available on the web) had a segment about our major security analyst saying that the war in Iraq was unnecessary and counter-productive. Two days later an old report he made on Iraq was "leaked' to the press. The ancient report suggested he didn't know enough. The Federal Police could account for all copies of the report except for one given to the Foreign minister Downer ( in every sense) two days previously.

 

It is a media war out there.

[erich]

OT:Concerning DDT,

Let's hope Milloy doesn't find out that Lovelock himself, has stated that banning all DDT, was a mistake for millions in the third world.

[erich]

More interesting grist for the Plasma/weather interactions:

 

Cluster makes turbulent breakthrough

 

http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/9/8/7

[erich]

After reading a little deeper into Rabett's blog.......... this Real Climate discussion has comments from Martin B Enghoff the author of the paper that started this thread.

 

 

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/10/taking-cosmic-rays-for-a-spin/

[erich]

The current Nature has a couple studies, a little off topic concerning sun forcing of climate .......but these measurements do provide an Earth magnetic field history 800,000 years ago and implies stability of geodynamo processes on billion-year timescales.

 

 

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v444/n7115/edsumm/e061102-05.html

[erich]

The current Economist has an article:

 

http://www.economist.com/science/displayStory.cfm?story_id=8074812

[Michaelangelica]

Australia used to be a world leader in Cloud physics

Now we seem to have lost the plot.

Pity we now have the worst drought in recorded history and need some clouds

 

Erich

When the various "Space Rays" get here they will interact with various airborne aerosols.

 

I am trying to find a reference to research done in Brazil where it was found that clouds formed around special particles expressed by trees in the forest.

In other word the plants create their own rain.

i am sure I have read it somewhere but can't find it.

We do know that vegetation coverage of the land affects rainfall (see rabbit proof fence:

,http://www.weatherchannel.com.au/WWSM/images/0003/GlobalImages/30730.pdf#search=%22rainfall%20rabbit%20fence%22 and http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/earth/stories/s1152730.htm)

 

The implication is that the fewer plants we have in an area the less the rainfall.

 

Here is a research paper you might find of interest as there seems to be avery dynamic interactive process going on at very high altitudes that may result in rain. i am not sure how CFC's effect this.(my emphasis)

http://www.realclimate.org/searchresults.php?q=rain+cause+aerosls+transpiration++vegetation&submit=Search&cx=000455696194071821846%3Arealclimate&client=google-coop-np&cof=GALT%3A808080%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A34374A%3BVLC%3AAA8610%3BAH%3Aleft%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BALC%3A66AA55%3BLC%3A66AA55%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A66AA55%3BGIMP%3A66AA55%3BFORID%3A11%3B

Page 1

Atmos. Chem. Phys. Discuss., 4, 533–568, 2004

http://www.atmos-chem-phys.org/acpd/4/533/

SRef-ID: 1680-7375/acpd/2004-4-533

© European Geosciences Union 2004

Atmospheric

Chemistry

and Physics

Discussions

Single particle analysis of the accumulation mode aerosol over the northeast Amazonian tropical rain forest,

Surinam, South America

Received: 14 November 2003 – Accepted: 20 January 2004 – Published: 26 January 2004

Correspondence to: R. Krejci ([email protected])

533

Abstract

Single particle analysis of aerosols particles larger than 0.2 µm diameter was per- formed on 24 samples collected over Surinam tropical rain forest and in the adjacent marine boundary layer (MBL) during the LBA-CLAIRE 98 campaign in March 1998.

Elemental composition and morphology of 2308 particles was determined using SEM– 5 EDX.

The aerosol particles were divided into seven groups according to their chemical composition: organic particles, mineral dust, aged mineral dust, sea salt, aged sea salt, Ca-rich, and biogenic aerosol.

Samples were further divided with respect to the distinct atmospheric layers present in the tropical troposphere including MBL, continen- tal mixed layer, cloud convective layer, free troposphere and region of deep convection outflow.

The organic and mineral dust particles are two major groups observed over the rainforest. In the MBL also sea salt particles represented a large fraction between 15 and 27%.

The organic particles control much of the chemical characteristic of the aerosol in the continental tropical troposphere.

Their abundance ranged from less than 20% in the MBL to more than 90% in the free troposphere between 4.5 and 12.6 km

15 altitude.

During the transport of the air masses from the MBL over the rain forest, fraction of organic aerosol particles more than doubled, reaching 40–60% in the con- tinental boundary layer.

This increase was attributed to direct emissions of biogenic aerosols from the tropical vegetation.

The high fraction of the organic accumulation mode particles in the upper tropical troposphere could be a good indicator for the air masses originated over the tropical rain forest.

I am not sure what or whether the "con- tinental boundary layer" is.

 

They seem to actually say that biogenic aerosols cause rain; but I think they might be important in the whole process given the Rabbit-Proof Fence reseach

Isn't acid rain formed around sulphur particles?

 

Your sage advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

michael

[erich]

Paleoclimatologists seem to have been at this debate for awhile:

 

 

In Ancient Fossils, Seeds of a New Debate on Warming :

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/07/science/earth/07co2.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1163040380-4WpeNZPFSlpKXwMAB7v2DQ

 

 

Here is the blog in which I found this article, Lounge of the Lab Lemming

 

http://lablemminglounge.blogspot.com/2006/11/jan-veizens-cosmic-ray-climatology.html