My refutation of the 12.

[Rebiu]

My refutation of the 12 reasons why interstellar space travel will never occur found in this link. INTERSTELLAR SPACE ROCKET TRAVEL

 

1 - PHYSICAL DETERIORATION-If a person is to live their entire live on a spaceship then this "deterioration" is simple an adaptation to their living environment.

 

2 - WEAR AND BREAKDOWNS-Redundancy through he use of arrays of components rather than single units as well as the availability of advanced recycling and fabrication techniques on board the spacecraft will overcome these issues.

 

3 - RADIATION HAZARDS-There are many potential ways to overcome the radiation issues. There are a variety of shielding possibilities using the magnetic polarity of the radiation. Physical shielding by using dual use components of the ship such as water reserves or a fluid environment. The people themselves could be adapted to have a capacity to survive the radiation exposure.

 

4 - METEOROIDS

Detection of incoming debris is relatively easy and point defense systems could defend the craft.

 

5 - REPAIRS UNLIKELY

A ship built to be repair and even upgraded in transit. Metal can be cast, carbon fiber wove, and circuits can be printed on paper all on board the ship.

 

6 - MOTION SICKNESS

The wheel may not be appropriate but a simple bolo type design where two or more units counterbalance each other on a cable is quite feasible at the rotational diameters necessary.

 

7 - AIR POLUTION

Terrestrial biosphere techniques are probable not the answer. Microorganism based agriculture can provide the efficiency necessary for air, food, water and waste management. Algae and bacteria can provide the nutrients and oxygen regeneration necessary by processing crew wastes.

 

8 - ENERGY SOURCES

Nuclear fission and fusion are possibilities. Perhaps the instellar radiation as well as limited solar could contribute.

 

9 - INTERPERSONAL CONFLICTS

Virtual reality and Artificial Intelligence can create stimulus that can alleviate the stresses of close and isolated living.

 

10 - DISTANCES TOO VAST

That is the real obstacle. There are propellentless energy drives that bounce electromagnetic waves in an asymmetric resonance chamber thereby creating a force imbalance through the relativistic nature of the waves. They only require energy input and no propellant.

 

11 - RADIO CONTACT

Radio contact is not necessary.

 

12 - OBJECTIVE UNLIKELY

If generations can survive on the spaceship then any planetary system will be a Eden by comparison.

[Tormod]

Very interesting! Thanks for posting.

[CraigD]

My refutation of the 12 reasons why interstellar space travel will never occur…

I need hear no more than “never” to question an argument against anything not clearly contrary to the laws of physics. Most or Rebiu’s refutations seem to me sensible and correct.

 

One, however, conflicts my understanding of physics:

There are propellentless energy drives that bounce electromagnetic waves in an asymmetric resonance chamber thereby creating a force imbalance through the relativistic nature of the waves. They only require energy input and no propellant.

Although I’m familiar with propellantless systems such as beam-powered propulsion and photonic rockets, I’ve never heard of an “asymmetric resonance chamber creating a force imbalance through the relativistic nature of the waves”. Rebiu, can you elaborate, or provide links or references to material that does? :eek_big:

[TheBigDog]

One, however, conflicts my understanding of physics:Although I’m familiar with propellantless systems such as beam-powered propulsion and photonic rockets, I’ve never heard of an “asymmetric resonance chamber creating a force imbalance through the relativistic nature of the waves”. Rebiu, can you elaborate, or provide links or references to material that does? :eek_big:

Sounds like the drive system described in this thread.

 

http://hypography.com/forums/physics-mathematics/8446-relativity-drive.html

 

Bill

[TheFaithfulStone]

That's some kind of crazy "Creation Science" page - so that puts them pretty low on the list of reliability right off the bat.

 

Furthermore, the ENTIRE thing is based upon the idea that if we can't do it NOW we can't do it ever.

 

TFS

[Boerseun]

Interesting!

 

However, I agree the biggest obstacle is the physical distances involved, as well as the time it'll take to get there. It will have to be a multi-generational ship, and if they reach the other star, tens or hundreds of generations later, a habitable planet will be a real foreign environment to people stuck in a bubble for thousands of years. They might just elect to stay in the ship!

 

If we can perfect cryogenic freezing, we'll get to the stars...

[Jay-qu]

Still, even with cryogenic freezing, you have to ask the passengers to say goodbye to everyone and thing that they know on Earth, because if they ever come back it will be possibly hundreds of years later (depending on how far they are actually going)

[TheFaithfulStone]

I'd do it.

 

TFS

[Rebiu]

Interesting!

 

However, I agree the biggest obstacle is the physical distances involved, as well as the time it'll take to get there. It will have to be a multi-generational ship, and if they reach the other star, tens or hundreds of generations later, a habitable planet will be a real foreign environment to people stuck in a bubble for thousands of years. They might just elect to stay in the ship!

 

If we can perfect cryogenic freezing, we'll get to the stars...

That is an intersesting notion. Perhaps artificial planets.

[Jay-qu]

I'd do it.

 

TFS

and I am sure many others would also jump at the oppertunity. The problem I see is that we would indeed colonise the galaxy eventually, but we wouldnt be setting up a galactic civilisation because trade and communication between worlds would be impractical. So we end up with a whole heap of seperate colonies. You can travel between them, but each time you do you forfeit life as you know it..

[CraigD]

The problem I see is that we would indeed colonise the galaxy eventually, but we wouldnt be setting up a galactic civilisation because trade and communication between worlds would be impractical.

I think this depends on your definition of civilization.

 

Communication across interstellar distances isn’t technically unfeasible, just slow, making the usual pace of human conversation impossible. Distant worlds could keep others informed of event ranging from art and entertainment to science, it just couldn’t be very interactive communication.

 

As for trade, only information – “intellectual properties” – could be transmitted at lightspeed using a reasonable amount of energy. It’s hard to imagine how a commercial venture to ship a load of precious metals or tasty treats from one star system to another could possibly turn a profit.

So we end up with a whole heap of seperate colonies. You can travel between them, but each time you do you forfeit life as you know it..

True, unless your social circle – friends, family, and loved one – also spend the same time traveling. In this case, the life you know would be largely unchanged, while society at large changed around it. The idea of “spaceflight creating subsocieties” is popular in science fiction – Joe Haldeman’s “The Forever War” contains one of my favorite treatments of the theme.

[TheFaithfulStone]

The problem I see is that we would indeed colonise the galaxy eventually, but we wouldnt be setting up a galactic civilisation because trade and communication between worlds would be impractical.

 

Unless you had the Hyperdrive®™©!

 

Or, alternatively, some kind of "consciousness upload" so you could just be "beamed" to Tau Ceti.

 

TFS

[Jay-qu]

Yes all very interesting counter points. Though think of this on a galactic scale, communicating any idea over a decent portion of the galaxy is going to take thousands of years (and a hell-of-a-lot of power!), not impossible, just impractical. Having self contained societies onboard ships would be one possible solution, but I still think there would be a lot of holes in the overall civilisation because of the lack of communication.

[Rebiu]

I do not remember where I read this.

 

The theory I heard was that one the solar system in fully settled and mankind reaches out to the stars they may very well meet earlier human pioneers that were unknown or forgotten. The analogy was similar to the Europeans finding Native Americans in the new world.

 

This implies a rather long timeline between interplanetary and interstellar capacity.

 

Given the proposed timelines and potential isolation the people encountered may not be recognized as human.

[Boerseun]

That idea was presented in "Songs of Distant Earth" by Arthur Clarke.

 

Pretty good book, if you ask me.

[TheFaithfulStone]

Also the "Hain" books by Ursula le Guin.

 

TFS

 

the best of which is "The Word for World is Forest"