Rethinking…Classic Mechanics will be Return

[HIENVN]

According to Webster’s New World, Dictionary of Science, page 542, “Quantum theory: testing Quantum theory”, by Peter Lafferty: “Quantum Theory must be wrong, Einstein said. Einstein was never comfortable with Quantum Theory; Einstein felt that behind the uncertainty of Quantum Theory there must be an exact reality.”

Max Planck of Quantum Theory created a revolution in science when he used the term "quanta" to disclaim the principle of Classic Mechanics, which was formed by Isaac Newton.

However, Einstein rejected the value of Quantum Theory; therefore, Einstein may predict a comeback of Classic mechanics!

Do you think the Classic Mechanics will be return, after Quantum Theory?

[Jay-qu]

No. Classical mechanics that we have today simply cant describe what happens on such a minute scale, hence why another theory had to be created. Quantum Theory cant really be 'wrong' because at the moment it is based around experimentation.

[HIENVN]

No. Classical mechanics that we have today simply cant describe what happens on such a minute scale, hence why another theory had to be created. Quantum Theory cant really be 'wrong' because at the moment it is based around experimentation.

Thanks you for your idea in this topic.

Although I have great admiration and respect for Quantum Theory and all its experiments, but I have to agree that Einstein was right when he said Quantum Theory is wrong! And,

I think Classical Mechanics will come back - but not in the original form. The Classical Mechanics should be improved before its can be integrated with Quantum Theory and Relativity Theory in a Unified Field Theory that Einstein proposed since 1920.

My vote may put a vexed question to scientists, who think Quantum Theory is right. Einstein may be excessive when he said Quantum Theory is wrong, but this is a right word for scientists who want to discovery his last idea. An explanation for my choice is not easy, and then I still finding for a simple explanation to this topic that I wish will be pleasure everybody.

All scientific theories are right if scientists know how to use advantages of these theories to serve for the benefits of human life.

I am waiting your idea in this topic that will help me perfect my explanation, which will come soon in our science forums.

 

HIENVN

[cwes99_03]

I think you are missing the point of Q's post.

 

Quantum theory perfectly describes what is happening on the scale it describes. It however doesn't describe some larger effects.

 

Quantum theory therefore isn't wrong, it is incomplete. Likewise, Classical theory (for the most part) isn't wrong, it is simply incomplete. In both cases the theories perfectly describe observable phenomena within a certain range of motion and dimension.

[Edella]

All scientific theories are right if scientists know how to use advantages of these theories to serve for the benefits of human life. HIENVN

I don't understand,how does the implementation of a theory have any bearing on whether it is (scientifically) correct or not? Scientific theories are seldom, if ever, "right" or "wrong" in an absolute sense. In principle, scientific theories are always tentative.

[Jay-qu]

I dont think Einstien actually said that quantum theory was wrong.. I know he said 'god does not play dice' and he was refering to the fact that quantum theory has a probabilistic nature. He was unhappy that events could not be properly calculated but instead on probabilities of one thing or another happening. Even so, Einstien was a great contributer to quantum theory, he actually won the nobel prize for his work on the photoelectric effect.

 

There is no doubt that quantum theory is incomplete, even mechanics is incomplete, insofar as they cant describe what happens everywhere and everywhen in the universe on all scales. Such a thing is called a Theory of everything, which you may find interesting to read up on. Try: theory of everything, grand unified theory and super string theory :Waldo:

[HIENVN]

I dont think Einstien actually said that quantum theory was wrong.. I know he said 'god does not play dice' and he was refering to the fact that quantum theory has a probabilistic nature. He was unhappy that events could not be properly calculated but instead on probabilities of one thing or another happening. Even so, Einstien was a great contributer to quantum theory, he actually won the nobel prize for his work on the photoelectric effect.

There is no doubt that quantum theory is incomplete, even mechanics is incomplete, insofar as they cant describe what happens everywhere and everywhen in the universe on all scales. Such a thing is called a Theory of everything, which you may find interesting to read up on. Try: theory of everything, grand unified theory and super string theory :Waldo:

Hi, Jay-qu

I may have some more quote with your idea. Below just is some quotes that I have write ready.

-Einstein is considered as a supporter to Quantum Theory in the initial of this theory, and then he might know some defects of Quantum Theory that others person cannot realize. Einstein seems to be right when he said Quantum Theory is wrong.

-The experiments work in the last half of 20th century just prove the right of Quantum Theory in the scope of atom or the structure of matter, not in the scope of universe that Einstein want to deal in his last life.

-Theory of Everything (TOE), Grand Unified Theory, Super String Theory is not complete, because this theory was based on Unified Field Theory that still not complete.

-If Einstein lived long enough to complete his Unified Field Theory, the world will be better than our world right now. Unified Field Theory would be integration between advantages of Classical Mechanics, Quantum Theory and Relativity Theory.

 

HIENVN

[Jay-qu]

Can you give me a link to show a quote where Einstein says "Quantum theory is wrong" ?

 

Thanks, Jay

[HIENVN]

I don't understand,how does the implementation of a theory have any bearing on whether it is (scientifically) correct or not? Scientific theories are seldom, if ever, "right" or "wrong" in an absolute sense. In principle, scientific theories are always tentative.

Any theory would have a lot of advantages beside some of its disadvantages; therefore, we should use advantages of theory instead of its disadvantages. Scientific theories are always tentative, and then we have a freedom to choose some theories that we can accept it for our purpose.

Although my subject is say Einstein was right when he said Quantum Theory is wrong, but my thinking just is a relative mind. The topic “Was Einstein Right When He Said Quantum Theory is Wrong?” just is a philosophy of Relativity Theory, which everyone can say Einstein right or wrong.

I really think all theory have two faces that everyone need to know while they using them.

For an example, Einstein’s equation (E equals m times c-squared) is useful for the recent science. However, in my study for Unified Field Theory, this equation will be harmful for the future science if recent scientists do not adjust this equation.

Do you think?

 

HIENVN

[Jay-qu]

Oh come-on, Heinvn old buddy, there is no way you didnt see my last post :Waldo:

 

Now could you be so kind as to show me the quote where Einstein says Quantum Theory is wrong? Ill even say please!

[HIENVN]

Can you give me a link to show a quote where Einstein says "Quantum theory is wrong" ?

 

Thanks, Jay

Hi, Jay-qu

Thanks you for your quote,

When I write a topic on our science forums, I always study some documents to prove for the truth of my topic. I will happy to show you some links to some documents, but in later because I have to find out in a lot of my document.

However, please do not misunderstand that I resist with Quantum Theory. I would like to see some defects of Quantum Theory and Relativity Theory to cancel these defects in a Unified Field Theory, which is an intimate relationship between Classical Mechanics, Quantum Theory and Relativity Theory.

For an general knowledge and idea of Einstein to his Relativity Theory, Unified Field Theory and Quantum Theory, you should read the book "Einstein Lived Here;" by Abraham Pais; in the chapter 6 entitled “How Einstein got the Nobel Prize;" Publisher: Oxford University Press, USA (May 1, 1994).

 

HIENVN

[HIENVN]

I dont think Einstien actually said that quantum theory was wrong.. I know he said 'god does not play dice' and he was refering to the fact that quantum theory has a probabilistic nature. He was unhappy that events could not be properly calculated but instead on probabilities of one thing or another happening. Even so, Einstien was a great contributer to quantum theory, he actually won the nobel prize for his work on the photoelectric effect.

 

There is no doubt that quantum theory is incomplete, even mechanics is incomplete, insofar as they cant describe what happens everywhere and everywhen in the universe on all scales. Such a thing is called a Theory of everything, which you may find interesting to read up on. Try: theory of everything, grand unified theory and super string theory :)

Following is more my answer to your quote.

-Einstein actually said that Quantum Theory was wrong…I will try to look for you some documents and, I wish some members of our forums will help you find some such documents.

-Somebody used the “God” of Einstein to laugh at his concept of science in his last life, because the “God” refer to religious than science. However, I think Einstein used the “God” to show a single secret of phenomena that he wished to know in his proposed Unified Field Theory, in which this single secret govern all the phenomena of universe.

-Einstein actually won the 1921’s Nobel Prize for his work on the photoelectric effect, but he did not recognize this photoelectric effect in his lecture to receive this award in Sweden in 1923 (You should read the book “Einstein Lived here,” Chapter 6, “How Einstein Got the Nobel Prize”, page 75, of Abraham Pais that I have introduced to you). Einstein rejected all his relationship to the Quantum Theory that he was a great contributor at his young time!

-Quantum Theory is incomplete and never complete, because its scope (atomic, matter) is so narrow to the universe of Einstein in his proposed Unified Field Theory. A single secret of universe will explain all phenomena that all matter (including human!) in the universe must obey it.

-Quantum Mechanics won Classical Mechanics because the laws of Newton were lack of energy in its laws. If the first law of Newton (Principle of Inertia) is improved, Classical Mechanics will catch up with Quantum theory and Relativity Theory in a Unified field Theory.

 

HIENVN

[HIENVN]

I think you are missing the point of Q's post.

 

Quantum theory perfectly describes what is happening on the scale it describes. It however doesn't describe some larger effects.

 

Quantum theory therefore isn't wrong, it is incomplete. Likewise, Classical theory (for the most part) isn't wrong, it is simply incomplete. In both cases the theories perfectly describe observable phenomena within a certain range of motion and dimension.

Welcome, cwes99_03

- You are right; Quantum Theory cannot describe some large effects because a restriction of a kind of energy, which scientists observed in their laboratories. Therefore, some larges effect should be yield to Classic Mechanics that need to be completed.

-Quantum Theory would be a complete theory in the small effect, such as atom and structure of matter.

-The motion and the dimension are just enough to describe observable phenomena; energy is needed to explain the cause of motion such as Quantum Theory did to the elements of atom and more.

- Scientists may use Quantum Theory to prove a lack of Relativity Theory (Einstein's equation) that Einstein predicted in 1923.

 

HIENVN

[Jay-qu]

-Einstein actually said that Quantum Theory was wrong…I will try to look for you some documents and, I wish some members of our forums will help you find some such documents.

 

Ok you go and do that, get back to me when you find it :) I would be interested to know in what contex he said this.. if he did indeed say so.

[cwes99_03]

Welcome, cwes99_03

- You are right; Quantum Theory cannot describe some large effects because a restriction of a kind of energy, which scientists observed in their laboratories. Therefore, some larges effect should be yield to Classic Mechanics that need to be completed.

-Quantum Theory would be a complete theory in the small effect, such as atom and structure of matter.

-The motion and the dimension are just enough to describe observable phenomena; energy is needed to explain the cause of motion such as Quantum Theory did to the elements of atom and more.

- Scientists may use Quantum Theory to prove a lack of Relativity Theory (Einstein's equation) that Einstein predicted in 1923.

 

HIENVN

 

Hienvn, I would suggest reading others posts before posting numerous times. You posted 4 times over the course of hours before reading and responding to my post. My post was pivotal in your understanding that the comments you are making in English do not make sense.

 

1) Quantum theory has never tried to explain anything other than the microscopic (atomic and subatomic) universe and its interaction. Thus it is not wrong, because it hasn't tried to describe classical physics, only modern quantum physics.

2) Classical theory has never been able to explain anything other than the macroscopic universe and its interaction. When you lump Relativity theory into classical theory, it is able to describe the macroscopic universe over a very wide scale, but not on the atomic/subatomic scale of interactions.

 

Thus there is discord between the theories. They each describe what they describe (and according to most scientists do so quite well, with some questions such as Twin Paradox and I'm sure something similar in Quantum), but neither can as of yet describe the other's scale of the universe.

 

Thus the purpose of a Grand Unified Theory. A Grand Unified Theory is bent on finding equations which can be used regardless of scale or range. Plug in any value from 10 trillion kilograms to 1 picogram and you will get valid results. Thus as Q suggested, I will suggest to you that you update your reading on theory of everything, grand unified theory and super string theory.

[IDMclean]

Quantum theory perfectly describes what is happening on the scale it describes. It however doesn't describe some larger effects.

 

There is something very wrong with the way that Quantum physics is interpted. In my opinion. I consider much of the conlusions that have been reached on the same level of "is there a god?", "What is the sound of one hand clapping", "which slit did the electron go through?", "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?", "What happened at the beginning of the universe?", and other such. That is I question the validity of the question itself. Each one predisposes something which is at this time either a) unverified, or b)unverifiable. In the Absolute.

 

I do not contest the conclusion that the universe is infact indeterministic, that to me makes much more sense than a deterministic universe. However. I do contest the conclusion that the electron even went through a slit. There is, to me, no conclusive evidence to support the assumption. Much like there is no conclusive evidence, to me, that supports the assumption that there ever was, or will be, a beginning or end to our universe.

 

Furthermore, it is non-germain to the issue as to wheather Einstein specificly said "Quantum theory is wrong" only that Einstein himself was not a supporter of much of QT.

 

So in short I see the advancement of science, and the synthesis of what we have to better explain what we see. If this takes on a form that is similar to classical physics, with new levels to more accurately describe different levels of phenomena, then so be it. However in my estimation, there is nothing magical about the electron experiment and what is generally assumed from it is a "does not follow" or Non sequitur.

 

That's just me though.

[cwes99_03]

You are correct. I should have said (especially since I am no quantum physics expert) that the theory of Quantum Mechanics perfectly models the atomic world of interactions.