The whole shebang will be flushed

[coberst]

The whole shebang will be flushed

 

I would say that the basic facts that we have, with which to start the search for the cusp of instinctive and reasoned behavior might be:

 

1) Somewhere in the chain of life, from its mysterious beginning to the present, there exists a point when the behavior of creatures is influenced by something we call reason rather than something we call instinct.

 

2) Using computer lingo, we can classify instinct as behavior caused by hardwired algorithms.

 

3) Reason is a means to control behavior based upon real time assessment of real time circumstances.

 

4) Reason requires that data from the senses be ordered into some fashion that will facilitate real time inferences, this is called conceptualization; followed by inferences made from these concepts.

 

5) We have, from computer modeling technology, empirical evidence that the neural system that control perception and mobility have the capacity to conceptualize and to infer. In other words, the essential elements of sensorimotor control are also similar to the essential elements of reasoning.

 

6) If biology has created the structure that has the elements for reasoning, it is logical to conclude that such a system would not be duplicated for reason but that this very same system would be modified in whatever manner is necessary for it to function also as an instrument that can reason.

 

Instinct controlled the behavior of creatures until reason kicked in and now humans are controlled to a large extent by reason rather than instinct. Throughout time the evolutionary process, which includes instinctive behavior, maintained some form of equilibrium in the world. With the introduction of rational creatures this evolutionary process has been drastically disrupted.

 

As reasoning creatures that have disrupted the evolutionary process, we must replace this evolutionary process with a rational process that can duplicate or improve on the natural evolutionary process. If we cannot perform this prodigious task adequately the whole shebang will be flushed down the toilet.

 

Secretary of State Powell said in regards to the Iraq war that “if we break it, we own it”. I think we can say the same thing about our human activity and natural evolution. We break natural evolution and thereby we own the problems caused by that action.

[IMAMONKEY!]

An excellent point there. I do not understand though. Are you saying we are controlled by reason or we control it?

[coberst]

An excellent point there. I do not understand though. Are you saying we are controlled by reason or we control it?

 

We are in charge of our own reasoning process.

[IDMclean]

natural evolutionary process

 

This term confuses me greatly, so I would ask for clarification.

 

What is it that you mean, exactly by this? As it would seem to imply that we are somehow outside the evolutionary process, and therefore supernatural. Would that then imply that we are oni, demons, or otherwise divine?

 

I would figure that since this is in the philosophies and humanities, what you mean is that there is an order of sometype that we have usurped, somehow. If that is the meaning then it comes to my mind that we are natural creatures as any other, and reason is as natural as instinct. Furthermore in the whole of the evolution thing, we are still subject to it, that we have found a clause that drasticly increases our relative survivability does not remove us, it simply places us differently in the grand pattern of reality.

 

I would like to know more of your meaning, as at current it would seem vague.

[Zythryn]

I would be interested in what the conclusion is?

 

What is the whole 'shebang' and what do you mean by 'flushed'??

 

Do you mean that we will cause our own extinction due to genetic tinkering, or lack thereof?

 

What form of 'flushing' do you foresee? Are you saying we will be ill prepared for natural disaster due to our not allowing natural selection to shape the human race?

[coberst]

This term confuses me greatly, so I would ask for clarification.

 

What is it that you mean, exactly by this? As it would seem to imply that we are somehow outside the evolutionary process, and therefore supernatural. Would that then imply that we are oni, demons, or otherwise divine?

 

I would figure that since this is in the philosophies and humanities, what you mean is that there is an order of sometype that we have usurped, somehow. If that is the meaning then it comes to my mind that we are natural creatures as any other, and reason is as natural as instinct. Furthermore in the whole of the evolution thing, we are still subject to it, that we have found a clause that drasticly increases our relative survivability does not remove us, it simply places us differently in the grand pattern of reality.

 

I would like to know more of your meaning, as at current it would seem vague.

 

Ecosystem—the complex of a community of organisms and its environment functioning as an ecological unit. I define the natural evolutionary process to be the ecosystem functioning as evolution has it. In short it is Mother Nature.

 

Humans are part of the ecosystem. Humans, as a result of reason, have been able to overpower this ecosystem. We do things that eliminate some species and in so doing the ecosystem must try to adjust and in many cases cannot do so. We do things that change the environment that can change drastically the ability of the environment to heal itself.

[IDMclean]

Obvious answer is to create our own ecosystem independent of the existing one.

 

Funny the best way to go about that is to get off the flippin' planet, and let other things struggle for the next million plus years to develop into some kind of being that we can communicate with.

 

The best way to go about getting off the planet is, well technology I suppose, humorous, eh?

[Zythryn]

Humans are part of the ecosystem.

 

Very true, no argument there.

 

Humans, as a result of reason, have been able to overpower this ecosystem.

 

Disagree. We have affected the ecosystem, we have not overpowered it.

 

We do things that eliminate some species and in so doing the ecosystem must try to adjust and in many cases cannot do so.

 

The ecosystem is not a living entity in and of itself. There isn't anything is 'must' do. The ecosystem naturally adjusts as species thrive and others die out. The ecosystem goes on just fine, what is at risk is certain species that may not survive (including us I suppose).

 

We do things that change the environment that can change drastically the ability of the environment to heal itself.

 

Never. Again, we can change the environment, but we can't stop it from being able to heal itself. Some day, we may be able to blow up our sun, but until then, we can not destroy the ability of the environment to heal.

 

To paraphrase a wise man (George Carlin):

 

'Destroy the earth?!? We can't destroy the earth. If we get out of hand with polution and such the earth will just shake us off like a bad case of fleas!'

 

Protocting our environment is all about protecting our own kind.

[IMAMONKEY!]

Earth would be pretty lonely without us. :hihi:

 

I guess what coberst is getting at is we are not part of Earth's nature/Mother Nature, but have merely suppased it and are a seperate entity that can change/destroy/drastically affect Mother Nature at will. Fact of the matter is Nature and us are symbiotes. What we do to Nature affects us and so on and so forth. Although i think i see how he [coberst] could interpret us as being omnipotent with regards to the Earth. We do have the ability to destroy and damage it beyond repair, but that doesnt mean we'll survive to see it. :shrug:

 

Regards,

 

IMAMONKEY!

[Zythryn]

Earth would be pretty lonely without us. :hihi:

 

I think the earth would get along just fine with the next race of beings to develope after we are gone:)

 

We do have the ability to destroy and damage it beyond repair, but that doesnt mean we'll survive to see it. :hihi:

 

Again, I disagree, I don't believe we have the power to destroy the earth. We do have the ability to damage the ecosystem, but not beyond repair.

 

We could wipe out all of humanity, but that would do nothing to the earth. We could blow up every nuclear warhead on earth, release all poisons and diseases we have, force all the methane deposits we can find into the atmosphere (at a faster rate than we are doing so now:)). Earth would go on just fine.

 

Sure, you would have a mass extinction event, yet life at some level would survive. The earth would heal (even if it takes time on a geological scale) and the remaining life would expand into the ecological areas wiped clean.

 

We need to keep our ecology clean for OUR benefit, not for the earth's sake. It will get along just fine when we are gone (and it will have plastic:hyper: )

[IMAMONKEY!]

hmmm.. that is true. I wonder why i didnt think about it like that.

 

But i still think Earth would be pretty lonely without us... Naturally because without us it would be lonely to us :hihi: :D :D

 

erm.. so yes bad joke... i retire to my desk.