Is the counterfactual definiteness possible at the level of countries?

[Spathi]

I suppose, you know about the Elitzur–Vaidman bomb tester and the counterfactual definiteness:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elitzur–Vaidman_bomb_tester

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterfactual_definiteness

 

I have a question: can this experiment be performed at the level of countries for avoiding a nuclear war?

Let’s consider, that in 2300 A.D. there is a country with a dictator Kim 8, who oppresses his people, exports some resources and controls the overbomb which can totally destroy the planet. He is loosing power because of the sanctions, and decides to use the weird strategy – threatens that he will annihilate Earth if the sanctions will not be lifted. He does not want such a scenario, but he has a chance to win if the states will fulfill his demands because of fear.

What can the humanity do in this situation? They can annihilate the country of Kim firstly, but this is the violation of all international laws (the overbomb can me used only in response). However, I think that theoretically, one more scenario is possible: the states can create a superposition of two Earths (two universes), in the first the apocalypses does not occur, and in the second Kim pushes the button. Like in the Elitzur–Vaidman bomb experiment, the information that Kim had done this in the second universe, will be accessible in the first universe, and this will give the states the right to annihilate the country of Kim.

What do you think?

[OceanBreeze]

I posted my reply to this forum's version that exists in the second universe.

Please go there to read it.

[Vmedvil]

On 5/20/2024 at 12:52 AM, Spathi said:

I suppose, you know about the Elitzur–Vaidman bomb tester and the counterfactual definiteness:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elitzur–Vaidman_bomb_tester

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterfactual_definiteness

 

I have a question: can this experiment be performed at the level of countries for avoiding a nuclear war?

Let’s consider, that in 2300 A.D. there is a country with a dictator Kim 8, who oppresses his people, exports some resources and controls the overbomb which can totally destroy the planet. He is loosing power because of the sanctions, and decides to use the weird strategy – threatens that he will annihilate Earth if the sanctions will not be lifted. He does not want such a scenario, but he has a chance to win if the states will fulfill his demands because of fear.

What can the humanity do in this situation? They can annihilate the country of Kim firstly, but this is the violation of all international laws (the overbomb can me used only in response). However, I think that theoretically, one more scenario is possible: the states can create a superposition of two Earths (two universes), in the first the apocalypses does not occur, and in the second Kim pushes the button. Like in the Elitzur–Vaidman bomb experiment, the information that Kim had done this in the second universe, will be accessible in the first universe, and this will give the states the right to annihilate the country of Kim.

What do you think?

I am a strong believer in the M.A.D. doctrine or Mutual Assured Destruction and my solution would be for my country to build the "overbomb" as well and threaten him back with it forcing a M.A.D. situation which basically means that both countries would have the ability to destroy the world with the "overbomb" and could not fight coming to some settlement afterward on the sanctions as we talked about it while both having our fingers on the button to launch the "overbomb". This may not sound like it works in real life, but with nuclear weapons it works all the time especially during the cold war with the USSR. Secondly, about the part of him "Losing power" basically about that you just say "I hope you do" not caring about that and if he threatens you with the "overbomb" then threaten him back with the same device or a similar device that can blow up the planet.

Edited June 30 by Vmedvil

[Spathi]

On 6/3/2024 at 3:38 PM, Vmedvil said:

I am a strong believer in the M.A.D. doctrine or Mutual Assured Destruction and my solution would be for my country to build the "overbomb" as well and threaten him back with it forcing a M.A.D. situation which basically means that both countries would have the ability to destroy the world with the "overbomb" and could not fight coming to some settlement afterward on the sanctions as we talked about it while both having our fingers on the button to launch the "overbomb". This may not sound like it works it real life, but with nuclear weapons it works all the time especially during the cold war with the USSR. Secondly, about the part of him "Losing power" basically about that you just say "I hope you do" not caring about that and if he threatens you with the "overbomb" then threaten him back with the same device or a similar device that can blow up the planet.

Possibly I didn't fully understand your reply, but I think that bad news for the humanity are that the overbomb will always have a chance to be activated. Consider such a situation: the dictator has a 0.1% chance of activating the bomb, 70% chance that his chantage will work, and 60% chance that a revolt will happen in his country (if he does not use the chantage strategy). In such situation, it is "rational" for him to create a risk for whole humanity.

[eliteshadewind]

Interesting idea, but applying quantum experiments to global politics seems far-fetched. Dealing with threats like nuclear annihilation involves diplomacy and international pressure, not theoretical physics. Practical strategies and international laws would guide responses to such crises, rather than experimental quantum concepts.

 

[OceanBreeze]

On 6/21/2024 at 8:57 PM, eliteshadewind said:

Interesting idea, but applying quantum experiments to global politics seems far-fetched. Dealing with threats like nuclear annihilation involves diplomacy and international pressure, not theoretical physics. Practical strategies and international laws would guide responses to such crises, rather than experimental quantum concepts.

 

I would say the idea is far beyond "far fetched" and call it a fantasy. We do not have a means to create such a superposition of the Earth, which would be a superposition of the entire Universe. It is not an option.

[TheLightOI]

Cool idea, but we can't create parallel universes in real life. Diplomacy, alliances, and defense are the practical ways to handle nuclear threats.