A new way of extracting Hydrogen from water with great efficiency.

[biochemrex]

I always thought the cheapest way to extract hydrogen from water would be to harness the electrochemical potential between ocean brine and fresh water (rivers) that flow into the ocean. This small chemical potential can be amplified to what is needed, it is free and is constantly generated by weather. One hurricane produces way more freah water than anybody wants. That's a lot of free hydrogen production.

This is known as The Concentration Cell. It has been proposed in Australia by a CSIRO Scientist - Dr Black I think is his name? It sounds good to me, but I cannot get anyone interested. Keith

[biochemrex]

Hydrogen containment was already figured out during the develop of the H-bomb in the 1950's. Carbon fiber filiament winded spheres coated with epoxy are light and very strong, i.e,, 15K psi easily. The better way is something analogous to H-bomb fuel, lithium deuteride or hydride. It is a solid, therefore, no pressure problem, and one is able to store a lot of hydrogen in a small space. One would have to use some of the heat to extract the hydrogen. While the metal cation matrix should be reuseable.

 

In theory the big energy saving of electrical carts is regeneration. In theory - if there was no friction it would not cost anything toi travel from A to B. However there is a lot of resistance loss in regenerative braking. On the other hand the carbon fibre containment makes compressed air a viable system for propelling cars. Such a car is under development in Europe and one has been built in Australia. In such, regenerative braking is far more efficient and one can top up the tank with electricity - just pump in air - very fast.

Keith

[techhowse]

Hi Keith, could you please elaborate more on "the concentration cell"? how does it work? is electricity needed?

[biochemrex]

You can get more details from a Google search, but a concentration cell is simply 2 different concentrations of an electrolite separated by a permiable membrane. By placing electrodes in them and connecting them by a conductor a current will flow and the ions will flow into the more dilute solution until they are of equal concentration. Keith

[belovelife]

ok the norwegians have a hydrogen infrastucture

 

let me read more and i will get back

[alexander]

How does one calculate the efficency of a system? eg. gasoline combustion engine.

there are many things that go into this, in the most simplest of terms its a relation between energy put into a system vs energy you get out. in the combustion engine it's energy that is generaged by the combustion process vs kinetic energy at the crank (assuming we are talking only about the engine). In a hydrogen fuel cell, its energy produced by the oxidation of hydrogen vs the electric energy produced by the cell.

 

here's the thing, you cant think on a small scale when you are guesstimating the efficiency of a car as a system, you need to take into the consideration, not only how the fuel is obtained, but also how that energy at thhe crank gets used, the efficiency of a petrol-burning vehicle depends on the extraction process, the burning process, the efficiency of the engine, the efficiency of the transmission, the overall weight of the vehicle, the efficiencu of the ectual propulsion system, aka, what are we spinning, etc.

 

hydrogen systems are easier, it is much simpler to calculate what the efficiency of the extraction process is, rather, the energy input at that stage, and then you start calculating output, and the efficiency of the fuel cell, and the electric motor, as well as the propulsion system, also considering the weight of the car...

 

many factors, its not a simple 3+2=11 deal...