Sound of music

[coberst]

Sound of music

 

Many years ago I became conscious of my ignorance of music. Of course, I recognized all the popular music and even tried to sing some of it occasionally. I had, for a very long time, been aware that I did not know music but for some reason I became conscious of this fact, my attention became focused upon this simple awareness. As a result I bought a package deal for ‘music appreciation’. My package included a book and some tapes.

 

I discovered that, for me, music appreciation was not going to be easy. I was directed to listen to certain tapes; I was told what to listen for and was informed as to the importance of that element I was hearing meant within the world of music. I had a very difficult time hearing what I was supposed to hear. I quickly lost interest and to this day I still do not know music. I do, however, know enough to recognize the depth of my ignorance. When I became conscious, through my music appreciation package, of the different elements of music I became knowledgably of the depth of my ignorance.

 

I miss much by this ignorance; this I am confident of. Someday I shall revisit this matter and hopefully I will stick it out this time and manage to jump over the barrier that surrounds this domain of ignorance. Once I get over that original high hurdle then I am confident my enthusiasm of discovery will carry me forward. That first step is the toughest in most domains of ignorance but once we overcome it we are supplied with the energy to carry forward because the joy of learning takes over.

 

Hobbies are ways in which many individuals express their individuality. Those matters that excite an individual interest and curiosity are those very things that allow the individual to self-understanding and also for others to understand them. Interests define individuality and help to provide meaning to life. We all look for some ideology, hobby, philosophy, or religion to provide meaning to life.

 

When examining psychosis the psychiatrist advises either the establishment of an interpersonal evolvement or for finding interests and perhaps new patterns of thought. Many of us find that our work provides that means for identity and personal fulfillment.

 

Few of us have discovered our full potentialities or have fully explored, in depth, those we have discovered. Self-development and self-expression are relatively new ideas in human history. The arts are one means for this self-expression. The artist may find drawing or constructing sculptures as a means for self-discovery. The self-learner may find essay writing of equal importance. Consciousness of individuality first become a possibility in the middle Ages. The Renaissance and further the Reformation enhanced the development of individual identification.

 

The word “individual” moved from the indivisible and collective to the divisible and distinctive. In this we see the development of an understanding of self-consciousness thus illustrating the dramatic change taking place in our developing understanding of the self as a distinct subject not just a cipher in a community. This was part of the Renaissance.

 

I recommend that each individual develop the hobby of an intellectual life. We could add to our regular routine the development of an invigorating intellectual life wherein we sought disinterested knowledge; knowledge that is not for the purpose of some immediate need but something that stirs our curiosity, which we seek to understand for the simple reason that we feel a need to understand a particular domain of knowledge.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

I discovered that, for me, music appreciation was not going to be easy

Introduction to Music Appreciation 101 Prof. D.D.

 

lesson one

 

grab favorite album

 

lesson two

 

place album into or onto appropriate music playback device

 

lesson three

 

crank that bugger up!

 

lesson four

 

enjoy! (appreciate)

 

If you feel that there need be moreto it you are over thinking and under appreciating!

 

Music is all about enjoyment for the musician and the listener. To appreciate is to enjoy.

[coberst]

Introduction to Music Appreciation 101 Prof. D.D.

 

lesson one

 

grab favorite album

 

lesson two

 

place album into or onto appropriate music playback device

 

lesson three

 

crank that bugger up!

 

lesson four

 

enjoy! (appreciate)

 

If you feel that there need be moreto it you are over thinking and under appreciating!

 

Music is all about enjoyment for the musician and the listener. To appreciate is to enjoy.

 

I think that I understand what you mean. For you and for most everyone music is an emotional happening. But I am certain that there is much more to music than this emotional response and that is what I was wanting to find.

 

I suspect that almost everyone can find pleasure in music. Likewise almost everyone can find plasure in living but I seek something more. There is more than what is derived through osmosis, it is this something more that I think will gratly broaden our life should we try to find it.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Music is born of emotion and well written music inspires the emotion that the composer was trying to convey...otherwise all it is is grammar, mathematics, and noise.

 

To be honest I can't imagine what it is you are lacking but would be quite eager to help if you could provide at least a vague description.

[coberst]

Music is born of emotion and well written music inspires the emotion that the composer was trying to convey...otherwise all it is is grammar, mathematics, and noise.

 

To be honest I can't imagine what it is you are lacking but would be quite eager to help if you could provide at least a vague description.

 

Perhaps if we try to examine your response we might get at what it means to 'know music'.

 

Your response that "music is born of emotion" is an idea worthy of examination. First we must examine what we mean by 'emotion'.

 

“It is through feelings, which are inwardly directed and private, that emotions, which are outwardly directed and public, begin their impact on the mind; but the full and lasting impact of feelings requires consciousness, because only along with the advent of a sense of self do feelings become known to the individual having them.”

 

First, there is emotion, then comes feeling, then comes consciousness of feeling. There is no evidence that we are conscious of all our feelings, in fact evidence indicates that we are not conscious of all feelings.

 

Antonio Damasio, Distinguished Professor and Head of the Department of Neurology at the University of Iowa College of Medicine, testifies in his book “The Feelings of What Happens” that the biological process of feelings begins with a ‘state of emotion’, which can be triggered unconsciously and is followed by ‘a state of feeling’, which can be presented nonconsciously; this nonconscious state can then become ‘a state of feeling made conscious’.

 

Human emotion and feeling pivot on consciousness; this fact has not been generally recognized prior to Damasio’s research. Emotion has probably evolved long before consciousness and surfaces in many of us when caused by inducers we often do not recognize consciously.

 

The powerful contrast between emotion and feeling is used by the author in his search for a comprehension of consciousness. It is a neurological fact, states the author, that when consciousness is suspended then emotion is likewise usually suspended. This observed human characteristic led Damasio to suspect that even though emotion and consciousness are different phenomenon that there must be an important connection between the two.

 

Damasio proposes “that the term feeling should be reserve for the private, mental experience of an emotion, while the term emotion should be used to designate the collection of responses, many of which are publicly observable.” This means that while we can observe our own private feelings we cannot observe these same feelings in others.

 

Empirical evidence indicates that we need not be conscious of emotional inducers nor can we control emotions willfully. We can, however, control the entertainment of an emotional inducer even though we cannot control the emotion induced.

 

I was raised as a Catholic and taught by the nuns that “impure thoughts” were a sin only if we “entertained’ bad thoughts after an inducer caused an emotion that we felt, i.e. God would not punish us for the first impure thought but He would punish us for dwelling upon the impure thought. If that is not sufficient verification of the theory derived from Damasio’s empirical evidence, what is?

 

In a typical emotion, parts of the brain sends forth messages to other parts of the body, some of these messages travel via the blood stream and some via the body’s nerve system. These neural and chemical messages results in a global change in the organism. The brain itself is just as radically changed. But, before the brain becomes conscious of this matter, before the emotion becomes known, two additional steps must occur. The first is feeling, i.e. an imaging of the bodily changes, followed by a ‘core consciousness’ to the entire set of phenomena. “Knowing an emotion—feeling a feeling—only occurs at this point.”

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

I honestly reeeeeeeeeeeeally don't understand...Again there seems much too much overthinking.....

 

To me it's apparently much simpler and the terms feelings and emotions interchangeable.

 

(Of course I'm relatively simple)

 

This means that while we can observe our own private feelings we cannot observe these same feelings in others.

Funny when wifey is feeling irritable I have no problem observing that she is more than just a bit unhappy... Of course it's much better when she's feeling frisky!

[coberst]

DD

 

I think that I posted the wrong blurb before. This is the blurb I should have posted. This blurb speaks to the meaning of emotions. The question comes to my mind is why is music so closely associated with emotions which are instincts. By the way I constantly write blurbs as I study new domains of knowledge because writing helps me understand what I am reading.

 

What are the emotions? The primary emotions arehappiness, sadness, fear, anger, surprise and disgust. The secondary or social emotions are such things as pride, jealousy, embarrassment, and guilt. Damasio considers the background emotions are well-being or malaise, and calm or tension. The label of emotion has also been attached to drives and motivations and to states of pain and pleasure.

 

Antonio Damasio, Distinguished Professor and Head of the Department of Neurology at the University of Iowa College of Medicine, testifies in his book “The Feelings of What Happens” that the biological process of feelings begins with a ‘state of emotion’, which can be triggered unconsciously and is followed by ‘a state of feeling’, which can be presented nonconsciously; this nonconscious state can then become ‘a state of feeling made conscious’.

 

”Emotions are about the life of an organism, its body to be precise, and their role is to assist the organism in maintaining life…emotions are biologically determined processes, depending upon innately set brain devices, laid down by long evolutionary history…The devices that produce emotions…are part of a set of structures that both regulate and represent body states…All devices can be engaged automatically, without conscious deliberation…The variety of the emotional responses is responsible for profound changes in both the body landscape and the brain landscape. The collection of these changes constitutes the substrate for the neural patterns which eventually become feelings of emotion.”

 

The biological function of emotions is to produce an automatic action in certain situations and to regulate the internal processes so that the creature is able to support the action dictated by the situation. The biological purpose of emotions are clear, they are not a luxury but a necessity for survival.

 

“Emotions are inseparable from the idea of reward and punishment, pleasure or pain, of approach or withdrawal, of personal advantage or disadvantage. Inevitably, emotions are inseparable from the idea of good and evil.”

 

Emotions result from stimulation of the senses from outside the body sources and also from stimulations from remembered situations. Evolution has provided us with emotional responses from certain types of inducers put these innate responses are often modified by our culture.

 

“It is through feelings, which are inwardly directed and private, that emotions, which are outwardly directed and public, begin their impact on the mind; but the full and lasting impact of feelings requires consciousness, because only along with the advent of a sense of self do feelings become known to the individual having them.”

 

First, there is emotion, then comes feeling, then comes consciousness of feeling. There is no evidence that we are conscious of all our feelings, in fact evidence indicates that we are not conscious of all feelings.

 

Human emotion and feeling pivot on consciousness; this fact has not been generally recognized prior to Damasio’s research. Emotion has probably evolved long before consciousness and surfaces in many of us when caused by inducers we often do not recognize consciously.

 

The powerful contrast between emotion and feeling is used by the author in his search for a comprehension of consciousness. It is a neurological fact, states the author, that when consciousness is suspended then emotion is likewise usually suspended. This observed human characteristic led Damasio to suspect that even though emotion and consciousness are different phenomenon that there must be an important connection between the two.

 

Damasio proposes “that the term feeling should be reserve for the private, mental experience of an emotion, while the term emotion should be used to designate the collection of responses, many of which are publicly observable.” This means that while we can observe our own private feelings we cannot observe these same feelings in others.

 

Empirical evidence indicates that we need not be conscious of emotional inducers nor can we control emotions willfully. We can, however, control the entertainment of an emotional inducer even though we cannot control the emotion induced.

 

I was raised as a Catholic and taught by the nuns that “impure thoughts” were a sin only if we “entertained” bad thoughts after an inducer caused an emotion that we felt, i.e. God would not punish us for the first impure thought but He would punish us for dwelling upon the impure thought. If that is not sufficient verification of the theory derived from Damasio’s empirical evidence, what is?

 

In a typical emotion, parts of the brain sends forth messages to other parts of the body, some of these messages travel via the blood stream and some via the body’s nerve system. These neural and chemical messages results in a global change in the organism. The brain itself is just as radically changed. But, before the brain becomes conscious of this matter, before the emotion becomes known, two additional steps must occur. The first is feeling, i.e. an imaging of the bodily changes, followed by a ‘core consciousness’ to the entire set of phenomena. “Knowing an emotion—feeling a feeling—only occurs at this point.”

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

The question comes to my mind is why is music so closely associated with emotions which are instincts.

 

I believe it's learned by osmosis. There are many songs that are forever tied to events in my life because they were there (on the radio) . For example "Miss American Pie" depresses the #e!! out of me. Why? It's just a song... right? Yeah it's just a song but it was also my mothers favorite song. It's been 24 years and that song still hurts. Then there are those that lyricly click with similar events in life.

 

I don't know why but I've always thought of "Cannon" as a sad piece though my wife thinks it a happy one....Go figure. The Bass portion of it is so somber. Of course it depends on how the piece is played uptempo is rather cheerfull. Played slow and ornate it would seem quite suitable for the loss of a loved one.

 

Then there's "moonlight sonata" so solumn, almost forboding, a dirge for the failing light.

I can't imagine this one coming even close to happy even played as gaily as possible.

[jedaisoul]

I think that I understand what you mean. For you and for most everyone music is an emotional happening. But I am certain that there is much more to music than this emotional response and that is what I was wanting to find.

 

I suspect that almost everyone can find pleasure in music. Likewise almost everyone can find plasure in living but I seek something more. There is more than what is derived through osmosis, it is this something more that I think will gratly broaden our life should we try to find it.

 

Hi Coberst,

 

In my experience, there is something more to the works of some "great" composers than just emotional enjoyment. The trouble is, it's very difficult to describe. Describing the mechanics of how they construct their music, does not help (as you seem to have observed).

 

I found that there is an intellectual "completeness" that is very satisfying emotionally in much of the works of Beethoven and Mozart. At one time theirs was the only music I would willingly listen to. Then gradually I came to appreciate the whole heartedly emotional music of Tchaikovski. As my musical horizons widened, I found that I was less interested in the intellectual aspect of music.

 

So in my experience, the intellectual aspect of music is not the "be all and end all". But if you are interested in experiencing it, I can only suggest immersing yourself in the works of Beethoven and Mozart. Of course, other people would suggest other composers, but these are the two I found most approachable on that level.

 

However, HOW you comprehend the intellectual aspects of their works is a different matter. In my experience, they use a musical language which is not directly equivalent to verbal or mathematical language, but has some similarities. It's as if they are saying X + Y = Z in music. There is a logic to the structure of the music that is, at times, profound. That's the best that I can describe it.

 

I hope that helps.

 

Terry

[Queso]

yeah the more you listen the more you know...you just think about everything the music is.... it's an exercise. Think about the instruments, who is playing them, WHY, how, where are they playing them, etc.

Also I think a good way to learn music is to make it. It's all about knowledge that you imprint on your amazing multidimensional psyche thing. Many layers. Weave thru time.

When you go to sleep just play around in your head with instruments. Good exercise.

Then in dreamland you can make physicless instruments that defy the law of earthy physics. This is the neuro tree family in praxis. It's on fire in a halographic spotlight somewhere within us or something. Union. Tool? All together now reacting to the squares this song is bending, following it not moving at all with new fingers.

Everything you've ever heard lingers in there. Especially recent branches.

Last thing. Do you know what a gain knob is? If you do. Good. Hold on. If you don't. Your mission is to find out what a gain knob is, and use it, then report back. K.

So your sensory inputs might have gain knobs. Check. If you do, Turn em up. White Rainbow rapids for the soul. The Indians are good at this. over and out.

[coberst]

Terry

 

Thanks for that advice. I am now reading "The Closing of the American Mind" by Allan Bloom and in that book Bloom is giving some insight into the effect of certain kinds of music upon the young.

[coberst]

orbsycli

 

It appears that you have a love affair with music that I doubt that I can come close to. I am afraid I might have a very insentitive ear. I think they call it a tin ear.