What is soul-can any one explain theoritically

[cwes99_03]

I believe that the greek word translated often (particularly but not solely in religion) actually refer to the force the causes life.

 

Thus in the biology forum, I would expect that a discussion of the soul would refer to what actually causes life.

 

Is it simply an electrical current in the body? If so, then why can't we keep the body of any living thing from dieing by simply passing a current through it? Perhaps we can if we could just figure out the complex nature of the current in the body. Thus we would have to replace all the body's parts with electronic circuits, but then we would not call it life, but machine.

 

Does anybody follow this, or does everybody want to attack this as a theological/philosophical topic only?

[Pyrotex]

I believe that the greek word translated often (particularly but not solely in religion) actually refer to the force the causes life. ...Does anybody follow this, or does everybody want to attack this as a theological/philosophical topic only?

Sure, I follow it.

I have heard said that the Greek word for "spirit" or "soul" meant simply, breath or breathing. I have also heard it translated as the "presence of breathing"; i.e., it is the thing or substance or power that a living thing has and a dead thing does not.

 

However, I have never heard it used as the thing that "caused" life. Unless you point me to a (non-sermon) source for this translation, I will remain skeptical.

 

I can add my own thoughts. Soul may be considered a dynamic pattern among the cells and cell components of a living being. Consider a whirlpool in a pond caused by a swift stream entering at one edge. There is nothing "in" the whirlpool but air and water. The whirlpool is not "made up" of any substance but is a dynamic pattern, a kind of "standing wave" of energy in motion.

 

Likewise, in a living body, there is a dynamic flow of energy and matter that generates a kind of "standing wave" pattern. We see this pattern as breathing, living, self-sustaining, aware, cognizent life.

 

If the swift stream in my analogy is blocked, the whirlpool "dies". Nothing is actually lost or goes away. The water and energy are still there, but their coherence as a dynamic pattern disappears. Likewise, when a being dies, the dynamic pattern disappears--and breathing stops.

 

IMHO, this is what the Greeks meant with "spirit" or "soul"; that property of being dynamic and reactive. I note that they did not speak of sleeping persons of having lost their spirit, so they weren't talking about consciousness. Though many theologians do today.

[cwes99_03]

I would agree pretty much with the first and last thoughts (the description of soul to mean the thing or substance or power that a living thing has and a dead thing does not), the parts in between I think I partly follow and understand.

 

Words translated as soul in the Bible (Hebrew ne'phesh and Greek psykhe').

 

The question is (biologically speaking) what is the origin of this life force? What causes it to exist and to inhabit (probably a bad choice of words here) cells? What creates the standing wave as you have termed it, and what sustains it?

[Dyothelite]

I once heard a biology proposal that suggested the possibilty of a subtle and undiscovered field of energy that shapes the course of the zygote into a fetus. Yes we can explain the DNA's role in the formation of life but this proposal actually hypothesized about a field of energy (spirit if you will) that might be the framework that the DNA forms into.

 

Has anyone ever heard this? It came from a prominent biologist whose name escapes me.

[CraigD]

I once heard a biology proposal that suggested the possibilty of a subtle and undiscovered field of energy that shapes the course of the zygote into a fetus. Yes we can explain the DNA's role in the formation of life but this proposal actually hypothesized about a field of energy (spirit if you will) that might be the framework that the DNA forms into.

 

Has anyone ever heard this? It came from a prominent biologist whose name escapes me.

I believe you are referring to Rupert Sheldrake’s theory of morphic fields. Although Sheldrake is a well educated biologist, his theories are controversial, and not accepted by most biologists, and is commonly considered pseudoscience.

[CraigD]

I believe that the greek word translated often (particularly but not solely in religion) actually refer to the force the causes life.

According to this wikipedia article section, the etymology of the word “soul” is from a 1st century AD Germanic word referring to the sea, as in a reservoir of available stuff. Earlier words, such as the Greek psyche and anima, and the Latin spirit, refer to mind, or breath. The earlier languages of Hebrew and Aramaic don’t appear to have an equivalent word.

Thus in the biology forum, I would expect that a discussion of the soul would refer to what actually causes life.

In its current common usage, I don’t believe soul refers to what causes biological life. Most religious orthodoxies appear to maintain that souls are present only in human beings, not in other animals and other biological organisms, despite their molecular similarity to human beings.

Is it simply an electrical current in the body? If so, then why can't we keep the body of any living thing from dieing by simply passing a current through it?

It’s important to note that, according to modern biology, the nerve impulses that control the muscles in animal bodies are not electric currents like those found in the wiring of an electric motor, light, or computer, but the result of mechanical “pumping” of sodium and potassium ions through cell membranes. This understanding dates only from the early 20th century – prior to that, many biologists believed that nerve impulses were electric currents. The 1818 novel Frankenstein, in which dead tissue is reanimated with a powerful electric current, can be thought of as nor altogether improbable speculation, given the science of its time.

[hallenrm]

There is a yet another meaning for the word, particularly in Hinduism. Here the word that is closest to the soul is the sanskrit word Atman, which literally translated means the self. Thus according to the Wikipedia

 

Hindu beliefs

Main articles: Atman (Hinduism) and Jiva

In Hinduism, the Sanskrit words most closely corresponding to soul are "Jiva", meaning the individual soul or personality, and "Atman", which can also mean soul or even God. The Atman is seen as the portion of Brahman within us. Hinduism contains many variant beliefs on the origin, purpose, and fate of the soul. For example, advaita or non-dualistic conception of the soul accords it union with Brahman, the absolute uncreated (roughly, the Godhead), in eventuality or in pre-existing fact. Dvaita or dualistic concepts reject this, instead identifying the soul as a different and incompatible substance.

 

The Bhagavad Gita, one of the most significant puranic scriptures, refers to the spiritual body or soul as Purusha (see also Sankhya philosophy). The Purusha is part and parcel of God, is unchanging (is never born and never dies), is indestructible, and, though essentially indivisible, can be described as having three characteristics:

 

(i) Sat (truth or existence)

 

(ii) Chit (consciousness or knowledge)

 

(iii) Ananda (bliss)

 

 

My web browsing led me to the following 'authoritative treatment' on this subject

 

http://www.hinduism.co.za/soul%26its.htm

[wine]

"If the eye was a singular organism, it's soul would be the act of sight."

 

The quote's not exact, but it's something witty aristotle said.

[HydrogenBond]

The soul is a projection of something within the human mind. It is usually personified as something external to the body that goes into recycle via reincarnation or into eternal paradise or hell. Essentually, the ancients were describing the progression of the DNA, with respect to the human personality. The soul is connected to personality software, that is genetically induced at birth, that makes general human propensity common to all humans (defines the personality of the human species). As humans advance through history the software (soul) progresses, causing the alternation of the DNA to record the improvements.

 

The idea of heaven and hell and the choice dependant on the activity of the individual, indicates that the soul or personality software, although genetic, can be affected by the actions of the ego. The heaven-hell orientation doesn't talk about recycle but permanency due to the ego-centric alternation. It symbolizes the soul or personality software subject to free will and choice in this world. For example, one traumatic event can turn a nice person into a butt head. The personality software becomes altered, i.e, into the soul of a jackal, making the rest of the persons life a type of hell for themselves and others.

 

There is another factor to the soul. Although it begins in the brain, because it is connected to the brain, it has an impact on the nervous system and therefore overlaps the entire body. The best example are gut feelings or feelings in the heart due to emotions. This starts in the brain but can tweak the heart muscles, etc..

 

The ancients saw sickness as being due to evil spirits. In tradition, spirits can animate the soul. In this case, something activates and pertubates the personality software, i.e., evil spirit could be memory of trauma. This sends an alterned nervous signal into the body, almost like a projection of the dynamic pertubation within the software. This alters the signal around tissues of the body causing psycho-somatic illnesses.

 

The witch doctor would do his hypnotic dance, trying to remove the evil spirit (traumatic memory) and replace it with a good spirit (make sense out of the trauma so it can be seen in a different way). This would alter the soul (personality software), the nervous output to the body, and the nervous focus around the afflicted tissue. If all goes well the person is healed of their psycho-somatic sympthoms and restored to a natural use of the soul.

[Dyothelite]

In the religious study of the soul and spirit there are three major threads of its study and practice:

 

Hebrew: Kabbalah

Hindu/ Buddhist: Tantra

Taoist: Chi Gong

 

In each system there are layers of spirit energy that generate fro a cosmic level down into smaller levels then into channels that run through the body.

 

Most systems see this energy as intertwined with physical matter, however you can find dualistic schools of thought that see a total trancendental relationship where spirit is "trapped" in matter.

 

For example in Hebrew the five levels are Yechidah (universal), Chiah (field around body), Neschamah (highest human consciousness), Ruach (roughly breath, but refers to human soul), Nefesh (animal soul), and Guph (in physical matter). Christian are most concerned with Ruach (through Jesus) and Yechidah (Holy Spirit).

 

In Taosim and Chi Gong they are Shien (spirit), Chi (vital energy) and Ching (in physical matter).

 

In Tantric studies the energy is called Prana, Kundalini (is the flow through the spine) and Shakti is the ultimate female principle that this energy emerges from.

 

Depnding on your school of study you can become aware of this energy and control and balance it.

[Dyothelite]

I like your approach to the concept of the soul, but it seems you are speaking more to the attachments of the soul, not to the soul itself. Karma is one of those words most improperly use (im not suggesting you did).

 

Projections of the mind are directly reflective of the bundles of energy stored in memory neurons and in turn create atttachment. Proof is in a rape victim or another traumatized individual. These projections are not the soul itself, but the soul has become clouded with negative attachments, which you can prove exist in the brains memory functions. The same would be true for someone whose personality traits reflect their upbringing.

 

Karma is more like the color of the soul, not the soul itself.

[cwes99_03]

If this is what is intended to be discussed then this needs to be moved to either the psychology forum or the theology forum.

Otherwise, this discussion should stick to the biological causes for life, and living.

[InfiniteNow]

If this is what is intended to be discussed then this needs to be moved to either the psychology forum or the theology forum.

 

Agreed...almost. Moving to Philosophy & Humanities.

[Dyothelite]

I disagree, atleast from my point of view. Especially the Chinese notions of soul and spirit have direct medical and biological influences. For example there are two types of chi (life energy) and ching (physical essence). innate chi/ching and accquired chi/ching. For example, the body is born with certain chemical compounds this is innate, when you eat you accquire chi/ching for the food you eat incorprorating this energy into your whole being. The whole system is directly interconnected.

[sebbysteiny]

Well what do you know.

 

I'm very glad I didn't bet. Because if I did, I would have bet on this being moved in page 1 or 2. You survived 3 full pages in the Biology forum talking about the soul.

 

Not only that, you managed to avoid the 'strange claims' and the 'theology' forums ending up in the respectible philosophy forum, which would have been even more money that I would have lost.

 

I have to say, that is quite impressive :eek:.

[InfiniteNow]

I disagree, atleast from my point of view

 

Disagree with what? :hihi: Perhaps quoting the post to which you are responding will alleviate such uncertainties in the future. :)

 

 

Not only that, you managed to avoid the 'strange claims' and the 'theology' forums ending up in the respectible philosophy forum, which would have been even more money that I would have lost.

Don't worry, Sebby. Threads move all the time, and it may be moved again. That's the beauty of these forums, they are dynamic, as are those who try to keep them running. :D

 

I'm very glad I didn't bet.

So... uh... what kinda money are we talking about here? I might be able to sway the outcome. ;)

[Dyothelite]

InfiniteNow

 

My dissaggreement was a feeble, way too late, vote for keeping it in the Biology section, I think it had already been moved when I posted that too. Hehehe.