How to talk to aliens

[Stargazer]

Seth Shostak of the SETI Institute has an interesting suggestion on what a message to other civilisations in cosmos we would send:

"[...]I propose that we just feed the Google servers into the transmitter. Send the aliens the World Wide Web."

 

http://www.seti.org/site/apps/nl/content2.asp?c=ktJ2J9MMIsE&b=194993&ct=308803

I never thought of that. I have pondered this many times, I remember many, many years ago when I read books on the subject, and I tried to compose my own messages. Just for fun. Anyway, I was inspired by the ideas in those old books (the books were old even when I read them) to send simple binary bitmaps, basically. Then I read "Murmurs of Earth" which describes the recording carried on the Voyager probes. I found it to be very clever to make a simple description on the "case" in which the disc was stored, to show anyone who might encounter it how to replay it. The instructions also included the first image they should see if they did everything right: a black calibration circle on a white background. Then followed images describing math and physical constants and measuring units.

 

Apparently it's difficult to compose a message for other civilisations. Would they understand the simple bitmaps or the Voyager records? Would it perhaps be better to send videos with lots of animations to teach them our language and other things? Still, it would be necessary to include some sort of calibration information so they know they're doing it right. Maybe a constant string of prime numbers could be broadcasted, and then simple instructions on what frequencies to listen to, and then the dimensions of the pages we would like to send. One of the numbers could be describing the number of pixels each page would contain, and then two numbers describing the x*y and possibly colours as well - especially if we wish to send detailed photos and videos. Now, here's a problem: How do we tell them to use rectangular monitors or at least to view our data in a rectangular way? Their monitors will surely not be like ours, they will be built for their "eyes" - if they have high resolution monitors at all. Easiest way would be to make the first images black and white, or binary. That way maybe it could be possible to show them how to view more sophisticated data. Movies and sound, for example, would need to be explained, which wouldn't be impossible once they can properly view the first images. A movie is a series of pictures over time, so time would have to be explained. Sound can be explained as well. Some have suggested that we could send them software, but then that would require us to show them our ideas of computing machines...

 

Or is Shostak right here? Could we just broadcast the web and then hope the redundancy would act like Rosetta stones, making it easier for them to interpret? What are your thoughts?

[Turtle]

I would use the simplest of all math first; arrangements of dots, first a single dot, then 2, then 3. Then once a reply is established, each side shares their symbol for the simple numbers & then you build up a common vocabulary from there. Jumping right into the net is ridiculously too complex to start with. Loo :hihi: k how long we've worked just to try & decipher Maya writing!

[Tormod]

Or is Shostak right here? Could we just broadcast the web and then hope the redundancy would act like Rosetta stones, making it easier for them to interpret? What are your thoughts?

Very good post, Stargazer.

 

But my thoughts after reading is is "there is such a thing as too much information".

 

Anyways, let's just send them Hypography and the aliens should be busy for a while. :hihi:

[TeleMad]

I would use the simplest of all math first; arrangements of dots, first a single dot, then 2, then 3. Then once a reply is established, each side shares their symbol for the simple numbers & then you build up a common vocabulary from there.

 

This assumes a conversation: a series of back and forth exchanges in response to one another. SETI isn't expecting a conversation: they're expecting just a received message ... or just some aliens receiving a message we sent. For example, even keeping things to within just our own galaxy, a civilization could be 20,000 or more light years away. How do we hold a conversation with a civilization if it takes 40,000 years to get a single reply? And do we really expect any technological civilization to last 40,000 years?

[pgrmdave]

You would have to establish logic equations:

*()~

**()`

***()!

~$~()`()/

~$`()!()/

~$~$~()!()/

~$!()`()"

~$`()`()"

!@~()`()/

 

...and so on.

[Stargazer]

I would use the simplest of all math first; arrangements of dots, first a single dot, then 2, then 3. Then once a reply is established, each side shares their symbol for the simple numbers & then you build up a common vocabulary from there. Jumping right into the net is ridiculously too complex to start with. Loo :) k how long we've worked just to try & decipher Maya writing!

True, and that's not between two species. But there has to be pretty much of the proposed language in the first message, since they could be hundreds if not thousands of lightyears away. In that case maybe the best is to include a complete message that begins with instructions on how to interpret it... If they're looking for radiosignals the way we do, then they should at least detect our message and see that someone is out there - and that's a pretty good start anyway.

[Stargazer]

Very good post, Stargazer.

 

But my thoughts after reading is is "there is such a thing as too much information".

 

Anyways, let's just send them Hypography and the aliens should be busy for a while. :)

Yes and on the entire internet there's so much rubbish and unorganised stuff. They would have to look at repeated words, sentences, images, to build up some relational diagram over information of different kinds. Perhaps they would understand just small parts of it even if they would get to read the Google cache servers. Hypography, and other organised sources would be a good idea perhaps, like all the news and encyclopaedias...

[Stargazer]

This assumes a conversation: a series of back and forth exchanges in response to one another. SETI isn't expecting a conversation: they're expecting just a received message ... or just some aliens receiving a message we sent. For example, even keeping things to within just our own galaxy, a civilization could be 20,000 or more light years away. How do we hold a conversation with a civilization if it takes 40,000 years to get a single reply? And do we really expect any technological civilization to last 40,000 years?

Conversation could be the next step, though. And hopefully the first civilisation we'll find will be pretty close to us, like within 100 ly or so. Even then an exchange of information would be terribly slow, but not at all impossible. A technological civilisation could survive for 40000 years or longer, if they just figure out how to not destroy themselves.

[Stargazer]

You would have to establish logic equations:

*()~

**()`

***()!

~$~()`()/

~$`()!()/

~$~$~()!()/

~$!()`()"

~$`()`()"

!@~()`()/

 

...and so on.

Which would be possible, as long as they understand what is what in the message. Other stuff like math and physics needs to be included as well. The frequency of the message itself could perhaps be used to describe other things.

[lindagarrette]

Conversation could be the next step, though. And hopefully the first civilisation we'll find will be pretty close to us, like within 100 ly or so. Even then an exchange of information would be terribly slow, but not at all impossible. A technological civilisation could survive for 40000 years or longer, if they just figure out how to not destroy themselves.

As I see it, the primary function of SETI is to locate where intelligent life is or has been, not to communicate with it. That's another department. Let's find it first.

[Stargazer]

Yes obviously we must find it first, so that's why I said it would be the next step, though strictly the dialogue part is not for the Search for ETI project...

[pgrmdave]

While we are looking for it, it would be better to prepare to find it than to, when we do find it, not know what to do.

[Turtle]

Since the original post asks for speculation, we don't need to wait for anything. Using radio to send our signal it becomes in effect a stream as soon as we turn it on & that stream has a leading edge & at that leading edge we put the basic math as I suggested & from that build the logic & then follows in the stream the development to our language. Then the rest is message; what we want to ask I would think. :hyper:

[Curiousgeorge]

actually, i believe that light is the answer for communication. transmitted in simple mathmatical flashes, yes containing lots of information. we have fiber optics.. why dont we dig a little deeper into that? transmitting mass amounts of information at the speed of light would be valuable on many levels.. though i am just guessing.

[TeleMad]

actually, i believe that light is the answer for communication. ... transmitting mass amounts of information at the speed of light would be valuable on many levels.. though i am just guessing.

 

Radio waves do travel at the speed of light. But since radio waves are of lower frequencies than visible light, they require much less energy to generate.

[C1ay]

This begs the question, do we really want to find alien life? Will the first life we find be the hunter looking for food or a diplomat looking for a relationship? I see it as a 50-50 chance which is really not that good of odds when you think about it. What does everyone else think?

[Buffy]

I think that its a virtual certainty that we will encounter a species like the Vogons who either want to build an interspace bypass right where our solar system is, or force us to listen to the most horrible poetry in the galaxy.

 

I've had an average of 5 computer's running Seti@home for about 6 years now, though. I'm pretty sure I want us to find the Vogons before they find us.

 

Cheers,

Buffy