How to talk to aliens

[Thomas]

Greetings Earthlings, :)

 

:P I AM VONTORK, OF THE KLINGON EMPIRE: :P

 

Listen to me, I believe that your weak forms of comunication cannot possibly span the vast reaches and light years of the galaxy. If you want to communicate with us, you must figure out a way to fold space and use a wormhole to transmit signals in the form of energy from one location to another.

 

That little voyager spacecraft of yours (the one that's traveling 11 mile per second past pluto to the unknown regions) It might have worked if it had not splated on my windshield this morning.

 

:eek: But SERIOUSLY, I do think the vast distances are very challanging to our forms of communication, even if they travel at light speed.

[C1ay]

I've had an average of 5 computer's running Seti@home for about 6 years now, though. I'm pretty sure I want us to find the Vogons before they find us.

 

Of course SETI is just a listening project as opposed to a broadcasting project so it should help us find them more than helping them find us. Honestly, even though the odds aren't very good that any life we meet will be friendly, I've always wanted to be on the greeting team to meet any alien we might encounter. If I end up being their lunch then I guess it will help everyone else know what's coming.

[pgrmdave]

I think that worrying about the possibilities is slightly xenophobic, and ignores that because we cannot know something completely different from ourselves, we cannot truly guess at the possibilities.

[Curiousgeorge]

Vast distances such as space are a very big challenge, though I do believe it is possible. just one idea would be to create a field around an object where inertia could not effect it.

 

Much like star trek and their "Warp" field. that way whatever is inside the field does not move faster than the speed of light, and all other things around it do. maybe using gravity and anti-gravity. though I do not believe radio transmissions to be the most effective way of communication. energy effecent yes, though there are MANY more harmonics and octaves of light. I don't believe we know how to use light at its full potential yet.. but it can do much more than just "shine." sub-frequencies and inaudible frequencies of sound are able to carry information, though I dont know if we fully utilize that either, but it still seems limited.

 

if we could figure out a way to use light to carry the information, and were capable of moving faster/not faster than light.. im sure we would catch someone's attention. if not, I think there would still be a new mode of transportion... a new era of explorers, and a more effecient way of locating E.T.

[Robust]

I'd begin by trying to offer them someting....like a ripe tomato.

[infamous]

Before you ask them to dinner, make sure that your not on the menu!!!!!!!!!!!!

[UncleAl]

Talking to outworlders

1) If there is life, is it technological? Neither pond scum nor aboriginal cultures can communicate. SETI shows no anomalous EM emissions to at least 50 lightyears radius. That is 524,000 cubic lightyears of nobody home.

 

2) If there is communicative life, what is its technology level? If it is where we are, we have a conversation. If it is much less, they can't talk. If it is much more, we do the listening.

 

3) The Earth is a hugely brilliant spotlight of EM radiation aross the spectrum starting in the 1940s from miltary radar and religious nutcases in Del Rio, Texas radio broadcasts, then add TV and satellite beamings. One heck of a 60 and 50 Hz hum, too. Nobody has shouted "Hi!"

 

4) What is the distance delay? Even a meager 10 light-year gap and continuous transmission on both sides makes for a very slow conversation. We won't be here by 2050. Recoverable petroleum resources will be exhausted. Social pressures will collapse First World civilization worldwide as early as 2015 when Baby Boomer mass retirement peaks.

 

"Talking with Outworlders" is a dead topic unless they visit. If they do visit, they will speak English and we are doomed. Remember the "discovery" of the New World and the Pacific Islanders by "hi-tech" Europe. One imagines the first exchange between terrestrials and visiting outworlders will go something like

 

Outworlders, "Play ball with us by our rules or we'll shove the bat up your butts."

 

followed by a meteoroid falling on Paris as necessary to make the point crystal clear. If you discover them, they are dogmeat. If they discover you, you are dog meat.

[TheFaithfulStone]

followed by a meteoroid falling on Paris as necessary to make the point crystal clear. If you discover them, they are dogmeat. If they discover you, you are dog meat.

 

Ya think? I understand that contact with an alien culture would probably destroy us - the same way that contact with Western Cultures destroyed the Americas. (ie, they'll put us under through shock and indifference rather than outright conquest.) On the other hand, I think we can safely assume that no interstellar culture will evolve that has been totally and forever monolithic. (Well, maybe not, but the odds are good.) Any alien species will have cultural differences among itself that will have had to learn to either ignore or otherwise overcome. It would be hard for a race of xenophobes to expand into interstellar space, since they would be busy killing each other over slight percieved differences. (Pot, meet kettle.) Of course, that's all wild conjecture informed by my naive idealistic assumptions.

 

And on the topic of being eaten - I was reading on an evolution blog the other day (I can't find the link right now, damn it) that intelligence was only a plus for social critters. That is, solitary hunters don't really benefit very much from being a whole lot smarter. Further more, hunters in general don't benefit a lot from getting smarter, at least not as much as they benefit from having bigger teeth and sharper claws. The rationale went that if you're primarily a hunter, your breeding success is determined by your ability to catch a lot of game, or at least by your ability to TAKE it from those that do catch it. Therefore, selection pressures will be for bigger, stronger, faster.

 

In fact, the only type of animal that really benefits from being "smarter" are social creatures with varied diets. Corvids, Parrots, Monkeys, Dolphins.

Look at the things that have evolved seperately many times - eyes, wings, skeletal structure (inside or out) Brains just isn't one of them. The things that did get brains are all creatures that we can make a stab at understanding - they don't seem as "alien" to us as sharks or snakes.

 

So, I think the fear of being eaten by ravenous alien hordes has more to do with our monkey / prey animal pyschology than it does any real extraterrestrial threat. Being eaten by something is a very primal human fear.

 

The greater danger is that aliens will destroy us not out of malicousness, greed or hunger, but just indifference. Isn't that how we managed to kill off a whole lot of "lesser" species?

 

TFS

[who cares about the habitat of the human? we have alien loggers that need to feed their families!]

[Queso]

alien species will be nothing like earth species. they will not use the same resources we do, and they will not be able to survive in our environment. well, maybe. but the chances of that, along with the chances of aliens coming here, are very very slim.

[nkt]

alien species will be nothing like earth species. they will not use the same resources we do, and they will not be able to survive in our environment. well, maybe. but the chances of that, along with the chances of aliens coming here, are very very slim.

But then they are likely to wear spacesuits, so I wouldn't rely on that to save us.

 

As for the OP suggesting we stream Google to them - are you insane?

 

I suggest that telling an alien race every last detail about us, our thoughts, our strengths, weaknesses, how we kill and exploit each other, how our economic structures are built, what motivates and scares us, toxicity data, our entire genome, and all the other things off google that would save a million hours of research and actual observation into the human race, would be a Bad Thing.

 

Whether we wanted to trade with them, or avoid being wiped out by them, playing all our cards at once would be really stupid. If they came to us, we would already be starting with a poor hand from a stacked deck.

 

They would know ten thousand ways to kill us, & we wouldn't even know if they breathed, let alone what gases. Heck, with that knowledge alone, and the higher ground, a single probe could take over the entire planet with one small nanotech fabrication machine.

[Queso]

do we want to kill them?

 

if a alien society is intelligent enough to space travel to our planet, i doubt they have any intention of killing us.

[TheFaithfulStone]

I suggest that telling an alien race every last detail about us, our thoughts, our strengths, weaknesses, how we kill and exploit each other, how our economic structures are built, what motivates and scares us, toxicity data, our entire genome, and all the other things off google that would save a million hours of research and actual observation into the human race, would be a Bad Thing.

 

Hmm... What did I say about xenophobic species not being able to make it to the interstellar level? We are all ascribing human motives to a hypothetical civilization so advanced it might not even understand what "eat the bald monkey" means. Or for that matter "EAT." Resource competition is probably not a good reason to leave your home world - it's easier to kill your neighbor. But if the aliens are busy killing each other, then they probably won't have made it here...

 

I've got the agree with orb here Any species that can make the kind of worldwide effort nessecary for interstellar travel has probably discovered that killing each other is counterproductive - and in fact have learned to live with all kinds of different cultures - stretching it to extraterrestrials ain't that big a step.

 

On the other hand, maybe bald pink bipeds offend their aesthetic sensibilities so deeply that there is no solution but to exterminate the monkey plague!

 

In that vein maybe the first message we send into outer-space should be "Please don't eat us!"

 

TFS

[gristly, and a bit gamey in the dark meat]

[nkt]

do we want to kill them?

 

if a alien society is intelligent enough to space travel to our planet, i doubt they have any intention of killing us.

Stake your life on that, by not mine nor my planets!

 

In other words, you may well be right, but if you are not, then even if it is only a small chance, it is too late. You cannot make them "unlearn" it. And what if a side lobe fom the transmission gets picked up by the invasion force about to plunder their planet? Or if they stick our info into a datafeed relay system that spreads lots more info around the galaxy? As I said, one AI or small unit with a ship and a fabricator could take this entire planet, if they had some system to let them not worry about fuel for a year or two, and they didn't really care for us as a species.

 

Let's face it. Let us look first at ourselves. In 30 years, when the gasoline/oil is really tight, and even the big military players are getting stuck, any little country that puts it's hand up and says, "We just found some oil!" is going to be invaded so fast... Just like now, and Iraq/Afghanistan. And, just like now, with the backing of the majority.

 

Now seriously, tell me that we won't/don't invade and kill/subjugate millions for our oil needs? Again, with the backing of the majority.

 

Consider a planet with a load of little green men. We find them, because they broadcast a map of the billions of tonnes of oil they have, good aproximations of population, military strength, economic base, etc.over the radio, in a "Google feed" like way.

 

Is there a force on this planet that would stop the US and Chinese governments from flying there, and taking the oil by force? The promise of a return to prosperity of the "oil days" alone would ensure a majority.

 

Now, would they do the same to us?

 

Don't forget, in a war of them vs. us, they aren't going to be rooting for *us*, are they?

[nkt]

Hmm... What did I say about xenophobic species not being able to make it to the interstellar level?

And I disagree with you.

We are all ascribing human motives to a hypothetical civilization so advanced it might not even understand what "eat the bald monkey" means. Or for that matter "EAT." Resource competition is probably not a good reason to leave your home world - it's easier to kill your neighbor. But if the aliens are busy killing each other, then they probably won't have made it here...

Why on earth do you say that? We made it to the moon because one president of one large country decided that he would like that as his legacy. And that was 30 years ago, before the advent of the computer had much effect, before modern materials science came about, before we decoded our genome, before cloning became possible, before we learned how to make oil and water mix... It didn't usher in some era of world-wide peace here - why would it anywhere else?

 

We could do the same again today, in less time, if we stopped worrying so much about the (potential) loss of a few people - if the odds of dying going to the moon are lower than driving down the road to get to work, that should be good enough! You would get people even if it was 50/50.

 

The only reason I can think of for an age of worldwide peace after getting into space is due to the first one up there dropping rocks on all the "enemy" and suddenly winning, with the world as the prize of that side.

 

And that doesn't bode well for us, should we bump into them.

 

In fact, if they were a peace loving race with no wars, why the heck would they ever get into space in the first place? Without industrialisation on a massive scale, they would never run out of oil or coal or other resources, and would therefore not ever need to go somewhere else for resources. Not even across the sea, let alone into the sky. No reason to learn to fly, let alone build ICBMs at several million a pop, so basic space travel is right out. And that industrialisation, in reality, only happened because of the two world wars.

 

And that *really* doesn't bode well for us, should we bump into them.

[infamous]

Prepare a meal for them and sit back and observe the look on their faces. If they don't like the menu, you'll be able to understand the grunts and groans uttered and if they do it will be quite evident by the look on their faces. This should lead to some basic understanding like, yummmmm, or ugggggggggggggg. Then that might lead to asking, do you want more? With response's like, ahuu, or uh,uh. Let's just make sure that we are not on the menu ourselves.

[TheFaithfulStone]

And I disagree with you.

Why on earth do you say that? We made it to the moon because one president of one large country decided that he would like that as his legacy. And that was 30 years ago, before the advent of the computer had much effect, before modern materials science came about, before we decoded our genome, before cloning became possible, before we learned how to make oil and water mix... It didn't usher in some era of world-wide peace here - why would it anywhere else?

 

Interstellar travel is a whole different ball of wax than going to the moon. Even interstellar probes are probably achievable by a single country - but no country on earth can mount an interstellar mission all by it's lonesome. It will require some level of cooperation with other cultures to stage a mission of that magnitude. You're going to have to learn to pool your resources or you just won't get it done.

 

I guess the alternative is that the aliens in question are entirely war-like and have successfully exterminated all opposition that has ever stood against them so completely that they are not currently occupied in a protracted supressive action. In which case our days are numbered.

 

I don't think being the victim of alien conquest is going to be one of our primary concerns should ET come calling.

 

Incidentally, I don't think resource competition is going to be a motivating factor for expansion into space. It's SO much easier to kill your neighbor and take theirs. Of course, utterly exhausting all resources on a planet might be a reason to move on, but I have trouble imagining a culture that wouldn't be torn apart by internal strife in such a situation.

 

TFS

[i for one welcome our new monkey-eating overlords...]

[Boerseun]

Quite interesting how our speculation on ET brings out the basic instincts of our species.

 

Warfare, competition for resources, fear, etc.

 

I think that if we're ever going to make contact with "them", chances are 99% that it'll be our first contact, and their, like, millionth or so contact. Statistically speaking, if there's one ET our there, there's gonna be plenty. And we have to speak to our first contact, and the chances of us contacting our first ET at the same time they're contacting their first, is so remote as to be almost non-existent.

 

I think our first contact will be with a species that's utterly bored with upstart little planets, stumbling bug-eyed into the wider world of the Galactic society, totally awe-struck with simple, everyday things the ET's take for granted. They will not be one tenth as enthusiastic about the whole contact-business as we'll inevitably be.

 

As for resources:

 

Any civilization capable of travelling across the light-years, will do it exclusively for either colonization, or science. Hauling tonnes and tonnes of resources back to their home world, is logistically impossible. And even if they did manage to figure out a way how to beam resources back, why not rather swallow Jupiter, thats loaded with hydrocarbs, etc.? The Earth will probably be the last place they'll come to look for resources, probably only meriting a quick fly-by from their scientists, to take a look at our curious primitive technology.