Religious Slavery

[Southtown]

I'm not sure I understand, Southtown. No one owns me.I (unlike a slave) can quit any job I have. Just about everyone needs to work to acquire the necessities of life.I don't think you're saying we are all slaves to the system or our employers,and only farmers are truly free. Could you clarify?

Well, they didn't have welfare or unemployment benefits. So if they ran away, they went hungry. It was a fairly similar situation.

 

Surely you're not suggesting that this is a proper way to deal with freeloaders,and that only freeloaders and those in debt were slaves?

Well, if you don't pay on your credit cards, they can freeze your accounts, garnish your wages, reposses items. And beware the IRS! I think I'd rather be beaten. =P

[Dyothelite]

Straying into the realm of Law as such is premature. Forgive the souls and enjoy the story.

 

 

 

Green Triangle Project

[awe1235]

...sayin', extend your pity to the mistaken.

[catholiboy]

Some think that Jesus would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament...

6:5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Ephesians 6:5 KJV

 

Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. 1 Tim.6:1 KJV

 

Which leads one to the question, of what sort are the masters described therein? Intellectual, material, or religious?

[Freddy]

Just in case you think I said God does not condone slavery, I said it was more like being employed than being (racially) inferior. They worked for livelyhood and to pay off debts (because it's the right thing to do.)

 

For more info see the Year of Jubilee (Biblical).

"

...

and the emancipation of all Hebrew indentured servants whose term of six years is unexpired or who refuse to leave their masters when such term of service has expired (Gen. 18:6).

" -- Wikipedia, Jubilee (Biblical), pp. 5

This is what I found for Genesis 18:6 "Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah, and said, 'Quickly make ready three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes'."

 

Leviticus 25:44-46: "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." (NIV)

 

The above speaks about slaves from other people or nations.

 

Leviticus 25:48-53: "After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him: Either his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or any that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself. And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubilee: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him."

 

The above speaks about slaves from their own people.

[LayDominican]

it is easy to sit here in the year 2006 and make remarks like the beqating or owning of slaves and killings and such things. That was how life was back in those days. It makes one wander what sins the twin cities were doing for God to destory them. Anyway, the use of the word "vile" is unfair. Think of the times and do not use judge them with our thinking of right and wrong...,†Lay†

[LayDominican]

SpikedBlood

 

I think it is unfair to use our standards when referring to actions done in the Old Testament. To use the word vile is wrong. The times were much different and the mode of living was much different. To look back and comment on what they did and use a word like vile is grossly unfair to those people. Just voicing my opinion....†Lay†

[cwes99_03]

As shown, many of you come to the theology thread asking for answers, but those that you find are often proposed by those who don't have a full understanding.

 

I have already posted an answer to this on Hypography.

 

A slave in ancient Isreal was much like South stated. He was however incorrect in his announcing that non-isrealites could not be slaves. They did make them slaves, on a regular basis. Those captured in war again the isrealites were made into slaves. This was considered just, because it spared their life.

 

Think of this, "I will spare your life, give you food, clothing, and a place to sleep. In return you will serve me as your master and I will treat you as a slave is prescribed to be treated according to my god, that is like a child, who needs constant oversight and discipline. Perhaps in time, your family will come to be like my family and we will live together."

 

There were strict guidlines for slavery. Furthermore, slaves during those times, particularly isrealite slaves, were not allowed to be kept indefinitely. Similarly land was to be returned to its original owner at the Jubilee (50th year) so that no one would be taking advantage of their fellow men, and each tribe would continue to have its inheritance.

 

If you want an answer to biblical questions, perhaps it is better to approach someone who has deeper understanding. Southtown is pretty good, but he occasionally makes mistakes, as we all do. I'd bet I've made a couple here myself in this very post.

 

Furthermore, Jesus used in his illustrations and parables, a description of a slave and master many times. Slaves being entrusted with money and the wicked slave burying it and not making something out of it. Likewise, true christians were constantly compared to slaves of God, and others as slaves to the world. Jesus understood slavery and put it in its proper place.

[Cedars]

it is easy to sit here in the year 2006 and make remarks like the beqating or owning of slaves and killings and such things. That was how life was back in those days. It makes one wander what sins the twin cities were doing for God to destory them. Anyway, the use of the word "vile" is unfair. Think of the times and do not use judge them with our thinking of right and wrong...,†Lay†

 

 

Yes, people owned slaves. They also partook in multi-god worship yet there was no hinderance to issue, thou shall have no other gods before me. Can you explain to me, whilst god was tossing out the commandments, Thou Shalt Not Own People wasnt a priority?

[Edella]

Yes, people owned slaves. They also partook in multi-god worship yet there was no hinderance to issue, thou shall have no other gods before me. Can you explain to me, whilst god was tossing out the commandments, Thou Shalt Not Own People wasnt a priority?

I would love to hear an answer to this question!

[Dyothelite]

...could've fooled me.

 

...sayin', extend your pity to the mistaken.

 

 

Yeah sorryI was drunk. Just warning ya bout bein vague. yah get hammered in here if you can't back it up.

 

I edited my drunky post too.

[Southtown]

This is what I found for Genesis 18:6 "Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah, and said, 'Quickly make ready three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes'."

Sorry about that. I guess they were referring to Deuteronomy 15:12-18. Wikis are for correcting... ;)

 

Leviticus 25:44-46: "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." (NIV)

 

The above speaks about slaves from other people or nations.

 

Leviticus 25:48-53: "After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him: Either his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or any that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself. And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubilee: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him."

 

The above speaks about slaves from their own people.

Well I could argue for a better translation of the Hebrew, but you have a point. They treated foreigners differently. Those slaves were undoubtedly the result of warfare or slavetrades. What to do with those guys? Well purchasing people from slavetraders would be the humane thing to do, actually. In the case of warfare, slavery is of course preferable to death.[/speculation] Read the book of Ruth.

 

But keep in mind, Yahweh did attempt to police their behavior, even he did it rather leniently. In my mind, the difference between owning Israelites and owning foreigners prohpetically symbolized the dynamic relationship between the righteous (free) and the self-righteous (slaves to law), i.e. the whole Sabbatical Year/Jubilee debt-forgiveness thing.

[LayDominican]

When God wrote the 10 Commandments, he did not put in a Commandment to free the slaves. You will have to take that up with God when you see Him. I don't have all the answers

[cwes99_03]

Well I could argue for a better translation of the Hebrew, but you have a point. They treated foreigners differently. Those slaves were undoubtedly the result of warfare or slavetrades. What to do with those guys? Well purchasing people from slavetraders would be the humane thing to do, actually. In the case of warfare, slavery is of course preferable to death.[/speculation] Read the book of Ruth.

 

But keep in mind, Yahweh did attempt to police their behavior, even he did it rather leniently. In my mind, the difference between owning Israelites and owning foreigners prohpetically symbolized the dynamic relationship between the righteous (free) and the self-righteous (slaves to law), i.e. the whole Sabbatical Year/Jubilee debt-forgiveness thing.

 

Of course they treated foreigners differently. God had set up a covenant with the decendents of Abraham not of any other man, and certainly not with the decendents of Sodom and Gomorrah and other like city-states.

 

When Josephs brothers sold him into slavery they likewise thought that they were doing something better than killing him, but they still knew what they were doing was wrong. Likewise Joseph said that what his brothers had done was wrong, but that God had turned the bad thing into a good thing, using his slave status to the advantage of Isreal and his sons when the drought came about.

Again a scriptural example that went to show that the Bible did not condone all aspects of slavery, particularly those of the European trade of African slaves, who were likewise kidnapped in some cases and sold into slavery by their own tribes and families. Some have argued that these people thought they were selling their family members into indentured servitude, not the Americanized (if you would call it that) form of slavery for life and death.

[epitome]

Really I'm just looking for a scripture. If one of the nice religious folk that visit this 'ere establishment can direct me to the scripture in the old testament( I think it might be Exodus), that states its ok to beat your slave, just don't kill him.

 

Just helping me find a scripture is a waste of a topic. There are lots of bible characters that are complicit with the act of keping slaves. In many instances the bible condones slavery(among other very vile things). How can you maintain the bible is gods word when it contains such brutal violations of humanity?

 

 

I am not a very good speller and my sentance structure is even worse.

 

I will try to answer your question the best i am able to.

 

The bible has a lot to say about all types of slavery . God did not condone his people whom Jesus would come from being in slavery . In fact he used Moses as his human spokes person, against Pharoe's keeping his people slaves.

 

God also says he wants every one to be free in Christ.