Why There Most Certainly Is No God

[Agememnon]

I think that this hypothetical removal of Religion does not factor in the "Hey, I liked that religion!" variable. If, hypothetically, religion did not exist, there would certainly be fewer problems.

 

Don't forget, Lancaster, there is a difference between RELIGION an FAITH.

 

There are people without FAITH who have RELIGION. And people without RELIGION who have FAITH.

[arkain101]

True.

 

I think it would be different if we didnt form organizations with ajendeous beleifs. A mob can conjur up some screwed up things.

 

And, yes I agree:

 

Faith can come to a person without even learning about a religion. In my situation that is what has happened. I have come to have faith that there is more to myself that I can physically, and it simply came to me through experience. Whereas it doesnt contribute to how I live my life by any means, other than those experiences contributing to investigating how it is I exist.

 

And I agree religion was never a requirement, and I personally have never seen the word in a 'holy book'.

 

It seems to me mythology is the expression people create from an experience of deeper experience.

 

And I move that into saying that mythology is the past group activity, and religion is the current group activity.

 

I see no requirement to form a group or union in beleifs, however it happens and it has unbeleive power and methods of gaining wealth. I could melt the popes church and sell the gold and **** to solve world starvation! lol :)

(if you havent seen how unbelevably covered in gold those churches are they are, thats what I mean.)

 

And I would gladly see those group activities change! Some of its righteous, most of its rediculous.

 

Overall, I just want to sum up my thoughts by saying.

 

In my opinion I don't give a hoot about someones beleifs, they change all the time anyway.

 

What matter is if your a good person or a bad person. And I know some say, well " good and evil is all relative to you view"

 

And thats precisely it. If you dont respect ones wishes of how to be treated you are not respecting them.

 

If they choose to be treated in a way you would refuse to treat someone, rightously so you dont have to treat them that way. Aka poop fetish or something.

 

Morals come from individuals, and in general they are more or less the same. Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself.

 

Regardless if what you beleive I will not judge on that, I will judge on your quality of a person in respect to me.

 

Sadly, not everyone has the freedom to that right, and I think we should support the spread of that freedom..

[phoenixbyrd]

Faith can come to a person without even learning about a religion. In my situation that is what has happened. I have come to have faith that there is more to myself that I can physically, and it simply came to me through experience.

 

Can you explain what that experience was?

 

No I am saying that to destroy religion, would likely require to destroy people. If you removed science, it would be met with opposition and resentment from people. If you removed religion, the same thing could be possible.

 

I agree with you there, science or religion, people would oppose removing either. Hell, there's scientists who oppose accepting new theories or facts because their old theories were life long endeavours and to learn that it was all for nothing, that it was wrong is hard to accept. I don't know, maybe I'm just an insane nut for thinking that people should be more accepting in knowing that they just might be wrong about a 2000 year old fairy tale when it doesn't fit with what we've learned about our planet, our universe and ourselve's.

[Agememnon]

Hell, there's scientists who oppose accepting new theories or facts because their old theories were life long endeavours and to learn that it was all for nothing, that it was wrong is hard to accept.

 

 

Not saying that I agree with this point but I want to see you argue this:

 

"Yes! You finally can see now! You see, scientists work all their lives trying to disprove God and make their own theories about how the universe works instead of just accepting the word of God! Then they find that they are wrong, and just plain, flat out do not accept the truth, just like you said!"

[phoenixbyrd]

Hey bud, lay off the crack, I said theories, not god. Please reread the post, it's pretty simple clear english. If you don't want to accept that scientists sometime's don't accept another scientists theory, then you go right ahead and do that. POWER TO TEH PEOPLE!

[BibleBeliever]

Not only are there contradictions, there's outright false information within that oh so divinely inspired book.

 

let's define what a contradiction is ok?

 

Broadly speaking, a contradiction is when two or more statements, ideas, or actions are seen as incompatible.

 

Clear enough I would hope!

 

Let's look at the very first book of the bible. Let's skip the fact that there are two creation stories and get to noah. Answer this question, how many pairs of animals did god command noah to take.

 

*Cue jepordy theme*

 

2 creation stories has been adequately responded to if you look (off site), the first is God's perspective, the second is Adam's perspective

 

What's the issue with Noah? did he take in a pair of dalmatians and a pair of terriers? no he took in a pair of dog kind- maybe like a wolf, I guess- and selective breeding / natural selection gave us all the varieties.

 

Have you any idea how big the ark was, it wasn't the thing you see in sundayschool books. Did he take dinosaurs on? of course, though they didn't have to be fully grown ones, just a male and a female. Oh and God sent them to Noah, he didn't have to hunt them down.

 

Phoenyxbyrd, you and I are not going to agree on much, we look at the world from completely different perspectives. I am not trying to get you over to 'my side', just to show you that science has forked off into those who use evolution to be their presuposition for everything they find, and those who believe that evolution has it's inconsistencies and look for other explanations. cosmologystatement.org is an example, a lot of non-creationists who do not adhere to the big bang theory.

[BibleBeliever]

Are you trying to say that without religion then people have no reason to act in a moral manner? Religion is no different then laws preventing people from doing certain acts against others. God says thou shalt not kill, so have man made laws. What's the difference? One is given by an imaginary being and the other given by a mortal man. Religion has been used throughout history as a means of destruction, even today we put people in jail because they think they're doing god's work. Enough is enough. No, not everyone does this, but when people start claiming to hear voices in their head telling them to murder because of some imaginary being they only have faith in existing, that raises a need to be alarmed. I've read a stastistic somewhere, something like 75% of people in US Jail are christian. That's sad. How many atheist do we here about on the news who kill in the name of atheism? None that I know of. So really, which is more dangerous?

 

75% of people in jail are Christians? may I ask two questions,

1: were they Christians when they committed the crime?

2:are they Christians or just say they are.

 

Have I heard of an athiest killing in the name of athiesm?

 

A quick search found this article:The Real Murderers: Atheism or Christianity?

Gregory Koukl,

 

wherein is written:

 

China under Mao Tse Tung, 26.3 million Chinese. According the Walker Report, 63.7 million over the whole period of time of the Communist revolution in China. Solzhenitsyn says the Soviet Union put to death 66.7 million people. Kampuchea destroyed one third of their entire population of eight million Cambodians. The Chinese at two different times in medieval history, somewhere in the vicinity of 35 million and 40 million people. Ladies and gentlemen, make note that these deaths were the result of organizations or points of view or ideologies that had left God out of the equation. None of these involve religion. And all but the very last actually assert atheism.

 

If a Christian breaks one of the ten commandments he's doing it against God's will. (and it happens every day, unfortunately).

[Lancaster]

Please do not get into the whole "who killed more people" argument, because it is irrelevant and does not reflect accurately on the morality of either side properly.

 

Let me ask you question, Bible Believer:

There are recorded 20,000 species of fish, 6,000 species of reptiles, 9,000 birds, 1,000 amphibians, and 15,000 species of mammals. And, although there are a million named species of insects, scientists estimate that there could be another million waiting to be discovered and named. Because creationists generally deny evolution, all of these animals would have to be on the ark. If Noah took two of every animal, there would be millions of creatures on the ark. How large exactly is this boat?!

 

And riddle me this:

1. God is kind and merciful

2. Most people on Earth haven't been behaving too well.

3. God has the power to do ANYTHING, including changing the attitudes of humans.

4. God is omniscient, so he saw this coming.

5. God has a plan, so he planned this.

6. God needs a solution to the bad behavior problem

7. God kills EVERYONE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD except Noah and his family.

 

 

Why did God do this? Why did everyone in the world deserve to die? Why are children taught this story? Why do you worship the perpetrator of the greatest massacre in history?

[arkain101]

When we pick apart an atom what are we picking apart?

 

When we pick apart the parts of the atom what are those?

 

When we take all those parts and try to pick apart them, what are we picking apart.

 

At what point do we end up with something we can not pick apart and what are we going to call 'it' when we do that?

 

Some might say its the force of existence, others might say its the god of existence...

 

either way you will have to have faith to beleive that it exists, because you wont be able to see it.

[Seeker]

The close of this question?

 

 

What would you do if you where god? What would you do if you yourself suddenly found that your being was ALL, that energy, matter, time, gravity,

light, dark, absolute zero, infinite heat, that was all that is and that is all that will ever be? It was you and your infinite existence. What would you do?

How would you mold your universe? What type of creatures would you

create? Would you create other beings to observe their creative desires?

The pathological ignorance of their self destructive ways?

 

 

Free will generates the apogee of both what humans describe as good and evil.

Is existence of humanity a fishbowl of god to observe a particular behavior

needed to EVOLVE to a higher life form?

 

I always get a kick out of long winded definitions of why their is no god,

yet the vast majority of all humans ever to live found in even primitive culture, the end result of creation contemplation.....god.

 

My advice, look over the beliefs of all facets of humankind, over the entire history, all religions, and maybe if your mind hasn't been fried by MTV or

socialist brain weaving, you will see similarities between cultures that had no contact between each other, yet have similar beliefs. Wow, what a miracle.

 

Is evolution right? maybe. Did a god create heaven and earth? maybe.

Are the self aware thoughts and bodies of humans a result of dice throwing in a primordial soup? maybe. Only an ignorant wretch would rule out any and

all possibilities.

[Seeker]

The close of this question?

 

 

What would you do if you where god? What would you do if you yourself suddenly found that your being was ALL, that energy, matter, time, gravity,

light, dark, absolute zero, infinite heat, that was all that is and that is all that will ever be? It was you and your infinite existence. What would you do?

How would you mold your universe? What type of creatures would you

create? Would you create other beings to observe their creative desires?

The pathological ignorance of their self destructive ways?

 

 

Free will generates the apogee of both what humans describe as good and evil.

Is existence of humanity a fishbowl of god to observe a particular behavior

needed to EVOLVE to a higher life form?

 

I always get a kick out of long winded definitions of why their is no god,

yet the vast majority of all humans ever to live found in even primitive culture, the end result of creation contemplation.....god.

 

My advice, look over the beliefs of all facets of humankind, over the entire history, all religions, and maybe if your mind hasn't been fried by MTV or

socialist brain weaving, you will see similarities between cultures that had no contact between each other, yet have similar beliefs. Wow, what a miracle.

 

Is evolution right? maybe. Did a god create heaven and earth? maybe.

Are the self aware thoughts and bodies of humans a result of dice throwing in a primordial soup? maybe. Only an ignorant wretch would rule out any and

all possibilities.

[Seeker]

Hey bud, lay off the crack,

 

Lay off the insults.

[Seeker]

Originally posted in opening blog...

 

All-good God Knowingly Creates Future Suffering God is omniscient. When he created the universe, he saw the sufferings which humans would endure as a result of the sin of those original humans. He heard the screams of the damned. Surely he would have known that it would have been better for those humans to never have been born (in fact, the Bible says this very thing), and surely this all-compassionate deity would have foregone the creation of a universe destined to imperfection in which many of the humans were doomed to eternal suffering. A perfectly compassionate being who creates beings which he knows are doomed to suffer is impossible.

 

Have you even read the bible?

What then makes an expert on suffering?

Unless you want to take in the consideration of the suffering one SACRIFICES

by reading that opening post trying to find a point.

 

 

I at least read darwins theory on evolution before disagreeing with it.

 

A question.....Have you ever been in intense pain?have you ever been witness to intense suffering? some people find pleasure in it, and causing it to!They are usually evil, And yes people that believe in god can do evil things. Kind of like reading that opening post! Please read the bible and other religious texts and maybe a miracle will happen and you can at least grasp the theroy before discrediting it.

[BibleBeliever]

Please do not get into the whole "who killed more people" argument, because it is irrelevant and does not reflect accurately on the morality of either side properly.

 

Let me ask you question, Bible Believer:

There are recorded 20,000 species of fish, 6,000 species of reptiles, 9,000 birds, 1,000 amphibians, and 15,000 species of mammals. And, although there are a million named species of insects, scientists estimate that there could be another million waiting to be discovered and named. Because creationists generally deny evolution, all of these animals would have to be on the ark. If Noah took two of every animal, there would be millions of creatures on the ark. How large exactly is this boat?!

 

It was a big boat!:hihi:

but to answer your question;

Why would Noah put fish on the ark?

see my point about the types of dogs? well it applies to other animals too, not every type of frog / finch / cow was needed just the ones that can produce the variety we see today, you see the idea of evolution where we see that an animal will adapt to it's environment is what we too believe, but for a cat to evolve into a dog or whatever that's what has NEVER been seen.

 

So all the different animals we now have wouldn't have to have been on the ark, just the ansestors of all the types of one species. (this is where difinitions come in useful, what I call a type and species is not necessarily the same as what you do. if we keep it simple and say only one Cat type, Frog type, Lizzard type etc then we see that there were not so many animals as you think. Also many insects wouldn't get wiped out in a flood so they wouldn't have to have been saved.

 

Here's an excerpt from the article: How did all the animals fit on Noah's Ark?

 

 

Was the ark large enough to hold all the required animals?

The Ark measured 300x50x30 cubits (Genesis 6:15), which is about 140x23x13.5 metres or 459x75x44 feet, so its volume was 43,500 m3 (cubic metres) or 1.54 million cubic feet. To put this in perspective, this is the equivalent volume of 522 standard American railroad stock cars, each of which can hold 240 sheep.

 

If the animals were kept in cages with an average size of 50x50x30 centimetres (20x20x12 inches), that is 75,000 cm3 (cubic centimetres) or 4800 cubic inches, the 16,000 animals would only occupy 1200 m3 (42,000 cubic feet) or 14.4 stock cars. Even if a million insect species had to be on board, it would not be a problem, because they require little space. If each pair was kept in cages of 10 cm (four inches) per side, or 1000 cm3, all the insect species would occupy a total volume of only 1000 m3, or another 12 cars. This would leave room for five trains of 99 cars each for food, Noah’s family and ‘range’ for the animals. However, insects are not included in the meaning of behemah or remes in Genesis 6:19-20, so Noah probably would not have taken them on board as passengers anyway.

 

Tabulating the total volume is fair enough, since this shows that there would be plenty of room on the Ark for the animals with plenty left over for food, range etc. It would be possible to stack cages, with food on top or nearby (to minimize the amount of food carrying the humans had to do), to fill up more of the Ark space, while still allowing plenty of room for gaps for air circulation. We are discussing an emergency situation, not necessarily luxury accommodation. Although there is plenty of room for exercise, skeptics have overstated animals’ needs for exercise anyway.

 

Even if we don’t allow stacking one cage on top of another to save floor space, there would be no problem. Woodmorappe shows from standard recommended floor space requirements for animals that all of them together would have needed less than half the available floor space of the Ark’s three decks. This arrangement allows for the maximum amount of food and water storage on top of the cages close to the animals.

 

And riddle me this:

1. God is kind and merciful

2. Most people on Earth haven't been behaving too well.

3. God has the power to do ANYTHING, including changing the attitudes of humans.

4. God is omniscient, so he saw this coming.

5. God has a plan, so he planned this.

6. God needs a solution to the bad behavior problem

7. God kills EVERYONE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD except Noah and his family.

 

 

point 1: I agree

Point 2 is an understatement. Like today, these people were BAD (however see my note below)

point 3 is not correct, God can only do what He has defined Himself to be so He couldn't tell a lie for example because it's not in His defined nature, He won't change our attitude because that will affect the free will which He gave us.

Points 4,5,6 and 7 ; Yup

 

Why did God do this? Why did everyone in the world deserve to die? Why are children taught this story? Why do you worship the perpetrator of the greatest massacre in history?

 

In short, we all deserve to die cos we've done what we want to do instead of what He want's us to do, but God has given us another 'ark', and those who get on the 'ark' of Jesus will be saved from the wrath that is to come.

 

Note this; Noah preached for all the years he built the ark, (about 100 years). ANYONE who wanted to could have got onto that ark, but they chose to believe Noah was a nut job. God is mercyful but we still reject His mercy.

[TheBigDog]

The Noah debate has convinced me that God exists. Only the gift of free will granted by an omnipotent God could allow an otherwise rational person to read the story of Noah as anything other than purely symbolic.

 

Bill

[Southtown]

I would urge you to reconsider ... rationally of course. :hihi:

[phoenixbyrd]

BB,

 

It was a really simple question. How many pairs of animals did god command noah to take on the ark.

 

We're looking for a contradiction in the divine word of god here. If you can't remember how many pairs of animals then re-read chapter 6 of genesis.