Origin of the universe????

[Harry Costas]

Hello All

 

White holes and worm holes are just theories and most do not agree that they may exist.

 

 

This is movie stuff material.

[kailas_knight]

Hello All

 

White holes and worm holes are just theories and most do not agree that they may exist.

 

 

This is movie stuff material.

 

ya, they can exist

[Harry Costas]

Hello Kailas

 

If you think they can exist, than explain HOW?

 

Yes I can sho you papers on maths and how they may.

But! none show you it is able.

[kailas_knight]

Hello Kailas

 

If you think they can exist, than explain HOW?

 

Yes I can sho you papers on maths and how they may.

But! none show you it is able.

 

harry,

 

It's agreed that inside a black hole ,time stops... and the singularity of the black hole has "-ve" or imaginary time..... Anything having an opposite property to the ones in our universe is considered as imaginary as there is no way we can know their properties...

 

white hole may be imaginary ,but mathematically it runs back ward in time and it will be in a -ve universe.

 

according to the equation Schwarzschild derived from relativity theory,

a -ve universe does exist and so does the worm hole and white hole....atleast,mathematically.....

 

 

here is the Schwarzschild's equation :

 

r=(2GM)/c2 -this equation is the original one Karl Schwarzschild derived from relativity..... explanation is ,if a mass, M, were compressed inside a critical radius, r, nowadays called the Schwarzschild radius (the farthest visible point), and then its gravity would become so strong that not even light could escape.

 

 

/////*****c2-means c square*****/////

 

 

r*c2=2GM

 

so c2=(2GM)/r

 

so c has two different solutions..ie c= +sqreroot(2GM)/r and c= -sqreroot(2GM)/r.

 

in the +ve square root solution ,c represents the velocity needed for a substance to escape a black hole at the Schwarzschild radius.ie, the velocity of light. The +ve solution represents a +ve universe...

 

however the -ve square root solution represents a -ve universe.

and in this case i think c represents the velocity needed by a substance

to enter a white hole(since white hole's repelling power is equal to black hole's force of attraction.)upto the Schwarzschild radius of the white hole...

since it's already proved that white holes run back wards in time , that accounts for evidence for -ve time,,,.

 

 

and there is evidence that -ve energy can be produced in lab using a principle known as Casimir effect...

 

you can mathematically prove that -ve mass exists by solving the -ve square root solution c= -sqreroot(2GM)/r.. the result you get represents the mathematical evidence required for -ve mass(possibly -ve mass represents anti-matter) and it also represents what the -ve mass and radius must be required to

form a white hole..

i am sticking to my assumption that -ve universe exists....

 

let me ask you a question?

how do you know that -ve numbers or complex numbers exist? .for your information , the -ve or complex numbers are imaginary.ordiary or +ve numbers are on the real or +ve number line , but -ve or imaginary numbers are on the complex number line..there is no real explanation for them...but they are mathematically possible...and so is the -ve universe and wormholes and white holes.. there is no evidence for them but it's mathematically posiible.......

 

if someone asks you ,"can there be a circle with a -ve radius ?", the answer is ,yes it can exist ,but it will be on the complex plain....

[Harry Costas]

Hello All

 

Where do you get the idea that inside the black hole time stops?

 

You have missunderstood all the scientific information.

 

Mate you need both feet on the ground. Reality is the main issue.

 

White holes, black holes, singularities are just fantasy ideas.

 

There are so many fantasy ideas out there, you need to keep both eyes open and specially the third eye.

 

Time is measured by the EM waves. These waves can be slowed down and in so doing influence the recorded time. Its all relative.

 

In the so called black hole and I'm not talking about a "well" of some form but a soup of ultra dense plasma degenreated matter where the density is greater than the density of an atomic neuleus which prevents light from escaping. Just because light cannot escape does not mean that time stops. It just means we cannot communicate because the light cannot reach us. I just hope that people stop putting these ad hoc ideas and trying to use science and maths to talk people into it. Keep it simple (KISS).

 

I think the movies are responsible for alot of the fantasy ideas and also the religions.

[Tormod]

Mate you need both feet on the ground. Reality is the main issue.

 

Your reality, I take it? Or rather, your perception of it. No thanks, it is not imaginative enough.

 

White holes, black holes, singularities are just fantasy ideas.

 

No, they are not. We have indirect evidence for black holes, and possibly direct observational results. They are essential to modern astrophysics and cosmology. We knoe for sure that there are supermassive objects at the centre of many galaxies, and these are black holes.

 

Now, *what* a black hole is, exactly, is still up for debate. That doesn't mean it is pure fiction.

 

What do you think science is? Study of things we already know everything about? Would be a very limited study, for sure.

 

I just hope that people stop putting these ad hoc ideas and trying to use science and maths to talk people into it. Keep it simple (KISS).

 

I wonder why you bother to post this at a science forum? If you are so opposed to science, why not go somewhere where science is ignored and not discussed?

[kailas_knight]

harry,

White holes, black holes, singularities are just fantasy ideas.

 

 

you are saying that black holes are fantasies.... If you think like that,

i would advice you to read more articles about black holes .....

 

Where do you get the idea that inside the black hole time stops?

http://www.zamandayolculuk.com/cetin...osenBridge.pdf

 

got to this link and read the pdf file and you will get your answer...

 

I just hope that people stop putting these ad hoc ideas and trying to use science and maths to talk people into it. Keep it simple (KISS).

 

harry ,please dont make such coments about things you dont know about..

 

I think the movies are responsible for alot of the fantasy ideas and also the religions

 

Now you are blaming the movies???...

 

Many science fiction movies get their

idea from actual theories.... It was from the paper ,Einstein and Rosen

presented about wormhole connecting two universes, that many movies of that time , got the idea...

 

Besides ,i dont remember about, black holes ,worm holes and white holes , mentioned in any religion.....

 

read more scientific articles about the universe,,,i would suggest...

[ronthepon]

harry,

you are saying that black holes are fantasies.... If you think like that,

i would advice you to read more articles about black holes .....

Axctually, most of the work on black holes is indeed based on theoretical speculation.

[kailas_knight]

Axctually, most of the work on black holes is indeed based on theoretical speculation.

 

dear ronthepon ,

 

there are evidences about the existence of black holes.....

 

i recently read in space.com , that a black hole has been discovered....

 

morover ,the center of galaxies contain massive objects, supposed to be black holes.......

[ronthepon]

It's the study of black holes I'm talking about, not about their existence.

[kailas_knight]

It's the study of black holes I'm talking about, not about their existence.

yes, in that sense , you are right

[Tormod]

Axctually, most of the work on black holes is indeed based on theoretical speculation.

 

Indeed. Much of cosmology is. That's what makes it so cool when they make really interesting discoveries...like this recent one:

 

http://hypography.com/forums/astronomy-news/9816-hubble-maps-cosmic-web-clumpy-dark.html

[Harry Costas]

Hello All

 

Hello Tomod

 

You missunderstod my words out of context.

 

As a matter of fact science is the issue.

 

Facts, evidence and proper mathematics etc is the way to go.

 

Ad hoc ideas are not the way to go.

 

As for black holes we do have a fare idea of the theoretical forces within and the possible particals that it may contain.

 

I'm not talking about black holes with wells as seen in the movies. I'm talking about matter that is degenerated to subatomic paticals and compacted by forces greater than those of the nucleus of an atom. It is these forces that prevent light from escaping. The name black hole means and object that prevents light from escaping.

 

If we study the progressive compaction of star cores ,from neutron to quarks to preon we notice the core denisty inceasing from a light core 10^5, neutron core 10^18 to 10^35 preon core (theoretical)

======================================================

 

As for Dark Matter

 

Hubble Maps the Cosmic Web of "Clumpy" Dark Matter in 3-D

http://hypography.com/forums/astronomy-news/9816-hubble-maps-cosmic-web-clumpy-dark.html

 

Dark matter has not been identified.

 

But we do know that 95% of matter is to be found in ultra dense plasma matter and ordinary plasma.

[kailas_knight]

I'm not talking about black holes with wells as seen in the movies. I'm talking about matter that is degenerated to subatomic paticals and compacted by forces greater than those of the nucleus of an atom. It is these forces that prevent light from escaping. The name black hole means and object that prevents light from escaping.

 

harry,

 

harry, i am not talking about black holes with wells either...i just mentioned the facts ...that's all.. Albert Einstein did prove that a black hole infinitly warps time around it.....According to the equation Karl Schwarzschild

derived from relativity , a negative universe and white holes are mathematically possible.... i didn't mean that one could travel from one universe to another through a wormhole...

 

Even though white holes exists or not , we may never know it....because a white hole runs back ward in time and would be in a negative universe... wheras our universe runs forward in time...

 

 

I tried to explain the mathematical possibility of negative universes and white holes , using the example of complex number or negative numbers.. both are mathematically possible ,,, but are imaginary...

I just furnished my ideas about white holes and negative universes as a support to the modifications i made to Durgatosh's split of 0 article.... because his concept explains the origin of the universe from nothing, without falling in to the eternal trap of the question " How did it come into being?"

[Jim Colyer]

I just like to go out and look up at the night sky.

[kailas_knight]

I just like to go out and look up at the night sky.

 

yup, i'm also interested in that..

[Tormod]

I'm not talking about black holes with wells as seen in the movies.

 

Argument fallacy warning - Harry is trying to disrupt the discussion by implying that others do not know what they are talking about.

 

I'm talking about matter that is degenerated to subatomic paticals and compacted by forces greater than those of the nucleus of an atom. It is these forces that prevent light from escaping. The name black hole means and object that prevents light from escaping.

 

Some basic particle physics might be in line here. Atomic nuclei are held together by the strong nuclear force. It is a strange force in that the further a nucleus particle goes away from the nucleus, the stronger the pull of the strong force is felt. Thus it is extremely hard to crack an atomic nucleus. This has nothing to do with black holes, which are objects of extreme gravity. The strong nuclear force is NOT gravity.

 

Electrons that orbit the nucleus are held in orbit by weak nuclear force. This force is (as the name implies) much weaker and it's not too hard to knock an electron out of it's orbit. When an electron is exited it emits a photon (the carrier of the electromagnetic force) and changes orbit. When an electron is hit by electromagnetic it consumes it and changes orbit.

 

Light is simply electromagnetic waves in motion. When the wave hits a physical object (or interacts with an energy field), it collapses into photons that are consumed.

 

A black hole is a gravity field that is so strong that when the electromagnetic wave crosses the event horizon, it can never escape because of the extreme gravity.

 

Thus the *only* force (that we know of) that creates a black hole is gravity. There may be microscopic black holes, but they too are the result of collapsed matter, ie the results of gravity.

 

If we study the progressive compaction of star cores ,from neutron to quarks to preon we notice the core denisty inceasing from a light core 10^5, neutron core 10^18 to 10^35 preon core (theoretical)

 

Yes, the cores of the atoms are trillions of times more dense than the atom itself. Yet the gravitational pull of these particles is so small (even non-existent since the particles themselves probably do not make dents in spacetime) that it has absolutely no bearing on the atom. Only when a *large* amount of, say, neutrons, collapse, as in the case of a neutron star, a black hole results. The size of the black hole is directly proportional to it's mass.