Saddam Husseins Hanging. Your Opinion?

[gribbon]

It took an iron fist to rule an area so overwhelmed with war. And saddam was there to fill the position. As far as democracy in Iraq goes, we can’t force democracy on people who don’t want it. It seems to me that the people in Iraq aren’t ready for democracy and we should stop forcing our ideals on other countries

 

Your wrong, there. Don't think that people in Iraq didn't want democracy, they were delighted. They're only fighting amongst each other now because the thugs have got the upper hand. With the economy in chaos, it's impossible for people to earn a living through anything other than violence. The stupid U.S army also made the ridiculous mistake of confiscating all weaponry from the army, and leaving it-totally unguarded, in warehouses, allowing terrorists to help themselves to thousands of tons of weaponry! Ludicrous...

[Racoon]

Let me ask you a question..

 

If you are absolutely against the Death Penalty, Have you lost any sleep over Saddam's hanging??

 

Has anyone thought that this world is worse off for hanging Saddam Hussein?

[InfiniteNow]

Well, that's up to each of us to decide for ourselves.

 

Saddam's Hanging Reverberates Through the Middle East -- Wednesday, Jan. 03, 2007 -- Page 1 -- TIME

Instead of frightening other Arab dictators into mending their ways, Saddam's fate will likely encourage them to cling to power at any cost: if you leave office, you run the risk of being executed by your enemies.

 

The war's architects had hoped that toppling Saddam would set in motion a train of events that would see liberal democracy triumph in the Arab world. Instead, the biggest beneficiary from his demise has been Islamic fundamentalism. Saddam's execution marks the final nail in the coffin of Arab nationalism, a secular ideology of pan-Arab unity and independence.

 

Throngs protest Saddam hanging in Jordan - Yahoo! News

Multiple demonstrations have been held in Arab capitals since Saddam's hanging, and several regional leaders condemned the execution.

 

In Lebanon on Friday, some 500 protesters carried a coffin wrapped with an Iraqi flag in a staged funeral to honor Saddam.

 

Execution doesn't end Hussein's influence - Yahoo! News

Many Sunnis, however, saw it as a national humiliation - a Sunni Arab leader killed by a US-backed government - and were angered by the fact that the execution took place on Eid al-Adha, Islam's most important holiday.

...

The European Union condemned Hussein's execution, with one top official calling it a barbaric act that could make him an undeserved martyr.

 

 

Saddam Hussein Executed, Former Iraqi Dictator Hanged; U.S. Forces On High Alert For Surge In Violence - CBS News

"Our respect for human rights requires us to execute him, and there will be no review or delay in carrying out the sentence," al-Maliki said.

[Racoon]

Did you lose sleep IN? did you lose a weeks worth of sleep over this moral outrage?!

Probably not;... Yet you can lobby hard for the abolishment of capital punishment all you want. It sounds real nice and politically correct... But

 

Bottom line is, at the end of the day, after said bad guy is executed, what did you do to prevent it?

How late did you stay up worrying about Saddams Family?

 

My guess is that after making a nice case for virtuosity and then logging off, that it didn't really matter that much... :angel: :Waldo:

[hallenrm]

Did you lose sleep IN? did you lose a weeks worth of sleep over this moral outrage?!

Probably not;... Yet you can lobby hard for the abolishment of capital punishment all you want. It sounds real nice and politically correct... But

 

Bottom line is, at the end of the day, after said bad guy is executed, what did you do to prevent it?

How late did you stay up worrying about Saddams Family?

 

My guess is that after making a nice case for virtuosity and then logging off, that it didn't really matter that much... :angel: :Waldo:

 

That's indeed the bottom line for all the academic discussions like the present one. Everyone knows that people like us are outraged? for a day or two whenever some event takes place, for which they are not personally responsible, neither is it likely to affect our personal life.

This outpouring is based on our personal beliefs, if an action appears to be contrary to our personal beliefs, all we can do is to write a few lines on a forum like this, or talk about it among our acquaintances. Apparently, it has a minuscule effect like a raindrop. Only when these raindrops take the shape of a incessant rain, some change occurs.

 

One expresses one's opinions in a public space, only in the hope that the raindrops of their opinions will prevent a drought or result in a storm.

 

:evil:

[InfiniteNow]

Did you lose sleep IN? did you lose a weeks worth of sleep over this moral outrage?!

Probably not;... Yet you can lobby hard for the abolishment of capital punishment all you want. It sounds real nice and politically correct... But

 

Bottom line is, at the end of the day, after said bad guy is executed, what did you do to prevent it?

How late did you stay up worrying about Saddams Family?

So, is the amount of sleep I lose a measure of my feelings? What if I take Ambion? That's gonna throw your measurement in the toilet!

 

I did try to secure a seat on a stealth bomber so I could infiltrate the dark warehouse where it was occurring. I was preparing to use my swiss army knife to slice the rope and run, but alas, they took it from me at the airport security checkpoint and I just went home to watch my Giants get their asses kicked by the Beagles.

 

Racoon, my man... Let's presume for a moment (and this is hypothetical, I know you're not, but let's pretend...) that YOU were against the hanging. Can you conceive of ANYTHING that YOU personally could have done to stop it?

 

You're expressing blood lust, nothing more. Your desire to see him dead makes you guilty of the same thing you hate him for... "That bastard killed lots of people. Let's kill him! Yeah!"

 

 

I'm not exactly a supporter of the guy, nor his actions, more a supporter of what I see as best for our culture in the long run.

 

Don't misinterpret my point. I am not suggesting that having ruthless dictators alive is good for culture. I'm stating that to survive we ultimately need to stop being driven by our hateful and vengeful passions.

[Michaelangelica]

So, is the amount of sleep I lose a measure of my feelings? What if I take Ambion? That's gonna throw your measurement in the toilet!

 

I did try to secure a seat on a stealth bomber so I could infiltrate the dark warehouse where it was occurring. I was preparing to use my swiss army knife to slice the rope and run, but alas, they took it from me at the airport security checkpoint and I just went home to watch my Giants get their asses kicked by the Beagles.

 

Racoon, my man... Let's presume for a moment (and this is hypothetical, I know you're not, but let's pretend...) that YOU were against the hanging. Can you conceive of ANYTHING that YOU personally could have done to stop it?

 

You're expressing blood lust, nothing more. Your desire to see him dead makes you guilty of the same thing you hate him for... "That bastard killed lots of people. Let's kill him! Yeah!"

 

 

I'm not exactly a supporter of the guy, nor his actions, more a supporter of what I see as best for our culture in the long run.

 

Don't misinterpret my point. I am not suggesting that having ruthless dictators alive is good for culture. I'm stating that to survive we ultimately need to stop being driven by our hateful and vengeful passions.

 

Amen

"We oppose the death penalty in all cases as a violation of the right to life and the ultimate cruel, inhuman and degrading punishment, but it is especially abhorrent when this most extreme penalty is imposed after an unfair trial," said Malcolm Smart, Director of Amnesty International's Middle East and North Africa Program.

 

"It is even more worrying that in this case, the execution appeared a foregone conclusion, once the original verdict was pronounced, with the Appeals Court providing little more than a veneer of legitimacy for what was, in fact, a fundamentally flawed process."

 

Amnesty International said it had greatly welcomed the decision to hold Saddam Hussein to account for the crimes committed under his rule but this should have been done through a fair process.

 

"His trial should have been a major contribution towards establishing justice and ensuring truth and accountability for the massive human rights violations perpetrated when he was in power, but his trial was a deeply flawed affair," said Malcolm Smart.

 

"It will be seen by many as nothing more than ‘victor's justice' and, sadly, will do nothing to stem the unrelenting tide of political killings."

Amnesty International Australia - Iraq: AI deplores execution of Saddam Hussein

For Whom the Bell Tolls

 

No man is an island,

Entire of itself.

Each is a piece of the continent,

A part of the main.

If a clod be washed away by the sea,

Europe is the less.

As well as if a promontory were.

As well as if a manner of thine own

Or of thine friend's were.

Each man's death diminishes me,

For I am involved in mankind.

Therefore, send not to know

For whom the bell tolls,

It tolls for thee.

 

John Donne

[Racoon]

Well IN, I certainly wasn't blood-lusting.

 

Personally It didn't matter to me whether he served the remainder of his years in prison or was executed.

 

My concern was, couldn't the resources used for his preservation be more appropriately applied to the innocent struggling to survive without food and water and medicine??

[IMAMONKEY!]

Well, actually, the question is whether it would be ethical to kill someone to prevent the deaths (or suffering) of others.

 

The facts clearly show the following things:

 

1) The death penalty is not cheaper.

 

TFS

 

Not Cheaper? I fail to see how it isnt. The only reason it costs so much is because courts take so long to decide things. Almost all of that accumulated cost was court fees. Not cheaper? how much does a bullet cost? To kill someone i a lot cheaper then to feed them, clothe them, watch them like a hawk, and entertain them for life. I personally see the death penalty as more economical. However I don't think it is more ethical then prison. Unless I knew that person was going to kill more people, then I would choose prison for that person.

 

In response to the question. If i knew that unless he was killed he would kill 10,000 more, I owuld give him the death penalty... Because out of 10,000, one of those could be you.

 

It's all about survival. ;)

 

I didnt have a lot of time to respond to this because class is ending so dont judge for a day or two while i finish this when i get home.

[InfiniteNow]

My concern was...

Thanks Rac. I understand. Please recall that not 100% of my comments were addressing you specifically, but the reader in general. :)

[gribbon]

Beware of your sources, InfiniteNow. Do you know the ideological slant of the ones you cited?

 

(The sole remaining candidate is Syrian President Bashar Assad, but his lack of military clout and key alliance with the non-Arab Islamic Republic of Iran undermine his claim to the mantle.)

 

This is nonsense, as the recent meeting between these two countries' leaders along with their intimate trade relations proves how these two countries have increasingly strong bonds. In June 16, 2006 the defence ministers of Iran and Syria signed an agreement for military cooperation against what they called the "common threats" presented by Israel and the United States. Syrian defence minister Najjar said "Iran considers Syria's security its own security, and we consider our defense capabilities to be those of Syria." The visit also allowed the sale of Iranian military hardware to Syria.

 

Iran-Arab relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Quote:

Instead of frightening other Arab dictators into mending their ways, Saddam's fate will likely encourage them to cling to power at any cost: if you leave office, you run the risk of being executed by your enemies.

 

This is partly true, but not entirely. Take Colonel Muammar al-Qadaffhi. Reflecting on the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and fearing the same fate as Saddam (prior to execution) he announced that Libya would give up it's Nuclear weapons program, and opened secret facilities for inspection. Although this has secured his position, he has also made considerable efforts to rehabilitate Libya in the global community.

 

Rememeber: TIME and THIS WEEK are the most western/right wing biased news editions you can possibly pick. They are a danger.

[InfiniteNow]

Thanks for some information from another perspective, fxzeu. It's always good to approach topics from as many perspectives as possible to gain a better undertanding. :D

 

 

Regardless of the source, this one is likely to cause some uprisings. I do not agree that Saddam's half-brother Barzan Ibrahim was intentionally mutilated, but it does show just how barbaric a process this really is.

 

Hussein's half-brother decapitated during hanging - CNN.com

Iraq hanged two of Saddam Hussein's aides early Monday, and one of the men was decapitated in the process.

 

The official video of the hangings showed Hussein's half-brother lying headless below the gallows, his severed head several yards away, The Associated Press reported.

 

NPR : Saddam's Half Brother, Top Aide Hanged

Two top aides to Saddam Hussein were hanged before dawn Monday, and the head of one of them — the former Iraqi dictator's half brother Barzan Ibrahim — was severed from his body during the execution, a government official said.

 

...

 

Al-Bandar could be seen dangling from the rope, while Ibrahim's body in a blur fell to the floor, chest down, his still-hooded severed head resting several yards away.

[TheFaithfulStone]

Not Cheaper? I fail to see how it isnt. The only reason it costs so much is because courts take so long to decide things. Almost all of that accumulated cost was court fees. Not cheaper?

 

Right, so if we could get rid of those pesky courts we could kill the annoying more quickly.

 

Fantastic idea. :rolleyes:

 

TFS

[gribbon]

Thanks for some information from another perspective, fxzeu. It's always good to approach topics from as many perspectives as possible to gain a better undertanding.

 

You're welcome! :shrug:

 

However, I thibk if you really want the other side of the story, then take a more anti-American source than CNN. I would look into Al-Jazeera.:shrug:

 

Nevertheless, it doesn't really matter seeing as all we are after are specific details, such as what happened to Saddam's half-brother. It does seem that this other execution was well concealed...

[InfiniteNow]

However, I thibk if you really want the other side of the story, then take a more anti-American source than CNN. I would look into Al-Jazeera.:shrug:

Good point. Check this out:

 

 

Al Jazeera English - Middle East

Interviewed by Al Jazeera's Stephen Cole, Tariq al-Hashemi, vice-president of Iraq and a leader of the Iraqi Islamic Party, said: I made known my reservations about the executions because the presidential council should be in charge of these things.

 

"The constitution states that all execution orders should be passed through the presidential office for signing. In addition, President [Jalal] Talabani asked the prime minister [Nuri al-Maliki] to postpone and to revise these verdicts.

 

"But the government has not been heeding these appeals."

[popfly]

I do feel he needed to be hanged, or executed in some way, but...

 

I think that he should have answered for all the other deaths he called, not stopping at that single village.

[gribbon]

Good point. Check this out:

 

Yeah I read Al-Jazeera and afrol news regualarly...(I haven't told you about afrol news, have I?) Just type it into google, and you find a news page specifically devoted to Africa!:D