Saddam Husseins Hanging. Your Opinion?

[Cedars]

Making Saddam out to be this incredibly dangerous monster is also a bit of a strawman, in my opinion.

 

Saddam committed atrocities, to be sure. He's responsible for the deaths of thousands of people. Make no mistake about that.

 

But the truth of the matter is that he was a killer, using the complete Iraqi governmental infrastructure as his weapon of choice. He simply does not have access to the tools and equipment anymore. He is now a sad, powerless ex-dictator suffering from illusions of grandeur. He rants and raves, but I doubt if you put a knife in his hand, he'll know what to do with it.

 

Real killers do the dirty work themselves. They are the dangerous ones.

 

Using that specific argument as pro-DP for Dictators, doesn't hold water, once again.

 

No the strawman is trying to justify continued expendature of resources on a mad dog who contributions to society encompass the list of atrocities that saddam accumulated.

 

We got 25 million other Iraqis to expend time, money, effort on and will achieve a lot more value per $. How many doctors can we train in Iraq for the cost of keeping saddam alive and secure? You put finite resources where they do the most for as many as possible.

 

Seems to be a moot point anyways. Looks like there is a good chance that saddam wont be celebrating this new year.

:hihi: :cup: :cheer: :doh: :cup: :friday: :0318:

[TheFaithfulStone]

No the strawman is trying to justify continued expendature of resources on a mad dog who contributions to society encompass the list of atrocities that saddam accumulated.

 

And this is an error of fact.

 

expensive, killing folks is.

 

Cheaper to put them in prison forever, in general.

 

TFS

[sebbysteiny]

Sorry for the late replies. Hypography forgot to email me that there were replies. :D

 

And this is an error of fact.

 

expensive, killing folks is.

 

Cheaper to put them in prison forever, in general.

 

TFS

 

Not so fast. Your statistic is for the death penalty in general. But it does not apply to Saddam anymore for 2 reasons.

 

1) Saddam is a high value target whose cost to remain imprisoned is significanly higher than normal.

 

2) Most of the death penalty costs have already been paid, ie the trial and the appeal. Now, all that is left if just a few comparitively cheap meetings with ministers, the purchase of a rope, and the payment of 1 hour of an executioners wage.

 

Money now favours killing the man.

Mens rea is a legal and completely moral principal which has been accepted in all decent legal systems.

"Completely moral" is pure hogwash and you know it. It is my stand that killing is immoral for any reason, and I am not known for letting philosophy get in the way of my thinking.

 

But why not consider a more well-known thought: The 6th Commandment (5th if you're a Catholic or Lutheran) clearly state, "You shall not kill". Not "you shall not end someone's life against their wish (unless it is okayed by someone)".

 

I take it then that one point of view here is more valid than another?

 

The 5th commandment STILL is interpretted to include mens rea. THOU SHALT NOT kinda implies THOU SHALT NOT TRY TO.

 

In my view, it is 'completely moral' because it is accepted by every single intellectual that has ever tried and succeeded in codifing morality into law for a respected legal system. Everybody who spends a bit of time thinking about it also fundamentally agrees with it. On the other hand, disagreeing with it, we have .... :D.

 

It is my stand that killing is immoral for any reason, and I am not known for letting philosophy get in the way of my thinking.

 

I'm thinking you need to do a bit more philosophy. Perhaps you might wish to think about:

 

A) a man who kills another when that other was about to shoot his wife and children;

 

:D a man who slips over on a banana skin onto a lighter, starts a fire and kills 1000 people.

 

According to most legal systems, and from considering the moral implications of mens rea, man A will be released without trial (assuming facts are clear) and man B will be given at the very most a small fine.

 

According to your philosphy, man A gets a life sentence and man B gets the death penalty.

 

Hmmm.

[Cedars]

And this is an error of fact.

 

 

Cheaper to put them in prison forever, in general.

 

TFS

 

This doesnt appear to be the case in Iraq.

[Boerseun]

Once our minds are made up by dollars and cents when it comes to taking another life, the Game is up. We've lost, and this is the end of humanity as we know it.

 

Lives are reduced to the results of cost/benefit analyses. Lemme think, now - who was the last guy to do this? Hitler? Shall we a)Gas or b)Shoot them Jews? Turns out gas is cheaper, so let's take that route! They're losing sight of the simple fact that they are killing someone, taking a life. The fact that it is cheaper or more expensive than the alternative should have no bearing on this discussion - you're putting a price on a Human Life, and that leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. Don't get me wrong - I don't give a rat's *** for Saddam, but I won't lower myself willingly to engage in the same acts for which he was put on trial for.

 

Simply put, it is wrong, wrong, wrong to kill another human being, regardless of that human's previous actions and misdeeds. If you're a religious person, you should take the stance that God is the Final Judge when it comes to matters of Life and Death. If you're not religious, like me, the position is merely a moral point of view: Killing is wrong, regardless.

 

I'm not trying to save Saddam's soul. I'm trying to save my own.[/metaphorically speaking...]

[TheFaithfulStone]

Well, I doubt any of us have access to Iraqi government books, so any more talking about that point is pretty much conjecture.

 

So, if I say birds can fly, in general - it's actually your problem to show that this particular bird, can, in fact not.

 

TFS

[Cedars]

Well, I doubt any of us have access to Iraqi government books, so any more talking about that point is pretty much conjecture.

 

So, if I say birds can fly, in general - it's actually your problem to show that this particular bird, can, in fact not.

 

TFS

 

I didnt make the claim it costs more or less to kill saddam or imprison him for life. I dont see a reason to spend any more money than the cost of the rope to hang him with. I can see alot of better uses for the resources that would be diverted into keeping him alive any longer.

[TheFaithfulStone]

I didnt make the claim it costs more or less to kill saddam or imprison him for life. I dont see a reason to spend any more money than the cost of the rope to hang him with. I can see alot of better uses for the resources that would be diverted into keeping him alive any longer.

 

The claim is implicit.

 

On a side note:

 

What if the rope costs $60,000 a foot? Since it's likely to be US Government Issue Rope, that's not entirely unlikely either

 

TFS

[Cedars]

Once our minds are made up by dollars and cents when it comes to taking another life, the Game is up. We've lost, and this is the end of humanity as we know it.

 

Lives are reduced to the results of cost/benefit analyses. Lemme think, now - who was the last guy to do this? Hitler? Shall we a)Gas or b)Shoot them Jews? Turns out gas is cheaper, so let's take that route! They're losing sight of the simple fact that they are killing someone, taking a life. The fact that it is cheaper or more expensive than the alternative should have no bearing on this discussion - you're putting a price on a Human Life, and that leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. Don't get me wrong - I don't give a rat's *** for Saddam, but I won't lower myself willingly to engage in the same acts for which he was put on trial for.

 

Simply put, it is wrong, wrong, wrong to kill another human being, regardless of that human's previous actions and misdeeds. If you're a religious person, you should take the stance that God is the Final Judge when it comes to matters of Life and Death. If you're not religious, like me, the position is merely a moral point of view: Killing is wrong, regardless.

 

I'm not trying to save Saddam's soul. I'm trying to save my own.[/metaphorically speaking...]

 

You wouldnt happen to be a thespian would you? The drama dripping from this post regarding the end of life as we know it seems a bit exagerated.

 

Every single day, from corps, to individuals we decide, based on $ which aspect we take in regards to our own concerns. From the simple decisions on what kind of car I drive with my kids in it to HMOs, Socialized medicines, medicade, and a host of other entities decide exactly that. Every day we put a price on human life based on the potential outcome and value to society prolonging such a life is worth.

[Cedars]

 

On a side note:

 

What if the rope costs $60,000 a foot? Since it's likely to be US Government Issue Rope, that's not entirely unlikely either

 

TFS

 

 

LOL, Thats funny.

 

I am willing to bet its going to be genuine, made in Iraq rope.

[Edella]

For what it's worth: Many news sources are reporting Saddam Hussein will be executed before 6am Saturday Baghdad time, less than four hours from now.

[Freddy]

Just heard at 6:00 PM EST that Saddam will likely be hanged within a few hours. It appears there is an appeal focusing on a change of his custody from US to Iraqi custody. A Muslim holiday is beginning soon and it seems they want to get it done before it begins. Death to a monster is how I see it.

[Mercedes Benzene]

Well, Saddam will be hung within the next hour and a half. (By 6:00 am Baghdad time).

I must say that I am not sorry to see this man go, especially after listening to interviews of Iraqi citizens. I'm not sure however, that this comes at exactly the right time. I think that his execution will only bring more violence, including attacks in the United States and Europe.

 

We have some dark days ahead of us I'm afraid. :)

[Freddy]

Saddam was executed shortly after 10:00 PM EST.

[TheBigDog]

Now is never a good time or a bad time. Good riddance. I will watch Hot Shots Part Deux and remember him fondly.

 

Bill

[Boerseun]

It's a sad day for justice, indeed. Apart from the pro/con DP debate, Saddam was in the middle of a genocide trial about the deaths of more than 180,000 people. I'd love to see him give testimony now. Don't tell me not hanging him would've been an insult to the families of his victims. Totally and completely [crude term for copulation] up the trial of the genocide case by killing the prime suspect is an insult to the families of his victims.

 

This is [equine excrement] and sucks [donkey testicles]

[hallenrm]

I really don't see any change, there are still many more 'evil' persons living and thriving and gaining popularity day by day! :)