A poll on Consciousness

[Tormod]

I'm not allowed to vote because I'm too new.

 

Just curious ... you *should* be allowed to vote. Did you get a warning or anything from the system? I checked the settings and you should be okay.

[wine]

Now ya got me--and I'm sure lots of other people--very confused about your definition of consciousness!

 

If I take this literally, you're saying "atoms are conscious" and I think its fair to say that's way different than most people's definition of consciousness.

 

So what are ya talking about, wine? This is your thread, so you get to lead...

 

Getting strange,

Buffy

 

Well, like god,

consciousness has many definititions.

It just seems like atoms are seeds

and like I said, when they get together densely, SOMETIMES (unlike the rock)

there's a brain, and a nervous system, on a planet.

 

;)

[wine]

P.s. I tried wearing a corset once and it was rather unpleasent.

[Buffy]

Well, like god, consciousness has many definititions.

So....is this about Biology or metaphysics? You get to decide! But please do!

It just seems like atoms are seeds and like I said, when they get together densely, SOMETIMES (unlike the rock) there's a brain, and a nervous system, on a planet.

Atoms actually get together much more densely in a rock than in a brain or a nervous system, but when I read this it seems like you're saying the more densely they're packed, the more conscious they are. Can you unconfuse my dense little brain? ;)

P.s. I tried wearing a corset once and it was rather unpleasent.

Exactly my point my dear wine! :hammer:

 

Shining,

Buffy

[wine]

 

However i do know that a lot of nerve signals don't get to the brain before they are processed. I believe the stomach has a deal going with the spinal cord

 

The solar plexus chakra.

 

Chakras are sources of psyche.

The 7 main (out of God knows how many)

chakras that reside along the spine (Near glands I cannot recall their names)

have a huge influence on who we are and what we do.

Chakras are also modes of healing. Once activated, you can focus on the infinite atomic healing potential in every single atom into you.

 

When you rotate their pinwheels thru rhythmic breathing amung other things, you can balance out your psyche-

 

The solar plexus(#3) is where courage resides. Hence 'the butterflies.'

How, I do not know, I only know what I observe.

The sex chakra(#2) is not only our horny mode, but the source for creativity.

I like to take notes on how I think when I am not turned on, and when I am.

There's such a difference, it's hilarious.

The base(#1), which is located at the bottom of the spine, grounds us psychologically to Earth. Think of roots.

The heart,(#4) where earlier today I found out has Neurons (which probably means there are neurons all over the place especially dense around the chakras)

is where we manifest our compassion.

I like to think of it as,

If I have to go to war (Solar Plexus)

I will fight with a code of honor.

(#5) is the throat.

All good singers, whether they know it or not, know how to activate their throat chakra.

And my laptop battery is going to die and I don't know where the power supply is

and Plus, I was just rambling about the chakras,

probably just as my own exercise. Documented. Maybe I'll come back if anyone's interested in details.

[wine]

So....is this about Biology or metaphysics? You get to decide! But please do!

Atoms actually get together much more densely in a rock than in a brain or a nervous system, but when I read this it seems like you're saying the more densely they're packed, the more conscious they are. Can you unconfuse my dense little brain? ;)

Exactly my point my dear wine! :hammer:

 

Shining,

Buffy

 

Just a factor of possibility, that's why i said sometimes.

Density isn't the key, but it helps with awareness in our brains.

Gotta go before the laptop dies!

OH, it's biology and a bit of metaphysics simply 'cause there's so much happening WOW we have no idea

[wine]

okay maybe a little idea.

[Buffy]

okay maybe a little idea.

Yep. Chakras is metaphysics according to most. To keep from confusing folks, would you prefer Theology, Watercooler or Strange and Interesting Claims?

 

At your service, ;)

Buffy

[hallenrm]

Let me now tell you my take on this.

 

Consciousness to me is being aware of other objects around and their qualities. In a sense it is being able to sense the influence of other things around. In physics, it is termed as force fields, now usually termed as Fundamental interactions, so any object of whatsoever kind and size must have conciousness. Chemistry and biology, unfortunately are often regarded as extensions of physics; because chemical principles are based on physical laws and biology is becoming more and more biochemistry or molecular biology, thus getting reduced to chemistry! Unfortunate, but true.

 

;)

[Boerseun]

In physics, it is termed as force fields, now usually termed as Fundamental interactions, so any object of whatsoever kind and size must have conciousness.

I don't agree with your take on this.

 

A magnet reacts to another magnet because of an electromagnetic field. You could argue that it's 'aware' of the other magnet's presence, but it will always react the same way to the other magnet under the same conditions. Similarly, Voyagers 1 & 2's paths got bent by Jupiter, not because they ware 'aware' of the planet, but by following the Laws of Physics. They followed a predetermined path, the result of which can be calculated and predicted beforehand to a remarkable degree of accuracy.

 

Humans, however, react differently each time to the same 'awareness' of another object. If I see a ball today, I'll kick it. If I see it tomorrow, who knows - I'll probably ignore it. But I'm aware of it both times. I don't think consciousness follows from 'awareness'.

[rocket art]

You mean to say that even things that are 'non living' are concious? Aware of things? If so, then how? Just give a brief account of your opinion.

 

I guess wine and others already answered this. Inanimate objects may be, in a sense, 'conscious' of their characteristics (i.e. heavy stone, light clouds, etc), but not necessarily 'aware' as humans or animals are, and are also non-thinking.

 

Somehow this is also consistent with my 'rocket philosophy' (I tend to call it as such because sometimes my ideas aren't found in science books yet, but they will eventually go there) that: "Consciousness is the source of gravity."

[ronthepon]

From word seek,

 

1: Conscious Con"scious, a. [L. conscius; con- + scire to know.

See Conscience.]

1. Possessing the faculty of knowing one's own thoughts or

mental operations.

[1913 Webster]

 

2. Possessing knowledge, whether by internal, conscious

experience or by external observation; cognizant; aware;

sensible.

[1913 Webster]

 

3. Made the object of consciousness; known to one's self; as,

conscious guilt.

[1913 Webster]

 

Syn: Aware; apprised; sensible; felt; known.

[1913 Webster]

 

Obviously, these 'definitions' seem to hint that conciousness is meant to be applied only to living beings.

 

2: Aware A*ware", a. [OE. iwar, AS. gew[ae]r, fr. w[ae]r wary.

The pref. ge- orig. meant together, completely. ?. See

Wary.]

1. Watchful; vigilant or on one's guard against danger or

difficulty.

[1913 Webster]

 

2. Apprised; informed; cognizant; conscious; as, he was aware

of the enemy's designs.

[1913 Webster]

 

Conscious is aware, aware is conscious.

 

what I figure from the opinions in this thread, is that consciousness must be present when any two entities interact. Secondly a stone is 'aware' or perhaps 'conscious' of it's weight.

 

Well, I'd like to say that the very meaning of 'conscious' is being streched here. The concept is being redefined.

 

In any case, this new concept obviously does not apply to the 'conscious' living beings with the same manner of true consciousness. I may be blissfully ignorant of my density, my gravitational feild, or the quality of the gases I emit, while these new concepts seems to hint that a rock is 'aware'.

 

Now, I would suggest that this concept be given a separate name. That's going to help remove confusion.

[wine]

I can not agree with you Ron. Conciousness is not awareness. Consciousness leads to awareness, obviously, look at how our brains evolved, and then just look at trees. They're conscious, but not aware.

Consciousness is natures way of collecting data.

Thinking, comes later.

 

And Buffy, do what thou wilt with this thread. It's just a bunch of ideas and opinions, working together collectively.

[InfiniteNow]

just look at trees. They're conscious, but not aware.

I understand your point, but can you think of a way to test this somehow? Have you encountered anyone else who has in any valid way?

 

 

Ultimately, whether or not trees are conscious would depend almost entirely on one's definition of consciousness. While this is a highly personal definition, there must be some degree of overlap with the definition held by others if it's to be useful...

[CraigD]

I voted “brain”.

 

My rationale was coldly reductionistic and empirical: One can remove effectively all of a human being’s nervous system outside of his brain, and this person can still self-report that they are conscious (eg: a victim of a high cervical spinal cord severing; a mechanical heart transplant recipient). However, if one removes a human being’s brain, or merely injures a critical part of it, they cannot.

 

I’m using the simplest, operational definition of “consciousness” I can: that it is an attribute possessed by people able to report that they are conscious. Though this definition has limitations (ie: a realistic mannequin with audio player in it meets it, while a person speaking an unknown language does not) I think it’s adequate for the poll question.

 

As previous posters have noted, consciousness has many definitions. Several terms, such as “awareness” and “sentience”, are sometimes considered synonyms of “consciousness”. In philosophical and scientific literature, it’s been and continues to be very difficult and controversial to define. My take on decades of this literature is that definitions of consciousness fall into 2 main camps: hard AI and mysterion.

 

Advocates of hard AI (coming from their belief that human-like intelligence can be implemented on artificial devices) define consciousness as the quality of a representational system containing a term for itself. Such systems are commonly said to contain “self models”.

 

This definition is neat, because it provides for easy answers to questions such as “can a single electron be conscious?” and “can a dog be conscious?” Because an electron lack the “movable parts” necessary to contain a representational system of sufficient complexity to contain a term for itself, its consciousness is ruled out. Because a dog contains many biological mechanisms capable of storing complicated information, it can have consciousness. It provides an approach to answering the poll question, also. Based on the best current scientific understanding of neurophysiology, I think the hard AI answer to the poll question is “brain”, because nerve tissue outside of the brain appears to lack structures capable of self modeling.

 

Mysterions (the word comes from how advocates referred to themselves in conferences in the 1990. Roger Penrose is one of the best know advocates) believe that consciousness arises from an as-yet poorly theoretically understood interaction between very small neural structures (see the wikipedia section ” Microtubules and consciousness”. Though interesting, this camp is considered by most people to be “pre-theoretical” - too early in their research to make testable predictions.

[Pyrotex]

...Here is one example. A man who had to have a heart transplant had no interest in writing or no other academic writing achievements unlike his donor. When the heart was transplanted successfully, the man experienced memories from that person and strangely started to write and write and write, he claimed that all he wanted to do was write.

This and many many other examples are known...

I would be willing to wager money that these are Urban Legends, and cannot be verified.

[PsyCho]

Consciousness is a product of brain function; which is influenced, mediated and coloured throught both the internal and external environment (beyond the CNS), from music to immune cells (ref-psychoneuroimmunology).

 

It is the overarching view of all these threads producing an instant which our 1st person POV designates consciousness, and is linked to every other conscious being through the visual and mirror system producing a reassuring network..... (less psi, more mirrors please)...... Failure to integrate these signals withing the same temporal frame will result in tension/mis-processing that will be resolved through a change in affect or thought processing, leading inexorably to mental phenomena such as disease, deja vu, dulusional behaviour, religious experiences etc., etc.,...

 

 

Of note.. & I think it's been said, if you must quote urban legends please provide a source :doh: . I know and have met a fair handful of people with heart transplants, lung transplants, liver transplants etc., and sure it changed there life, true some of them developed an interest in new things, all of which is compatable with a major life event rather than acquiring memories from your heart (as oppose to your hippocampal-limbic system).... How do you know it wasn't that, or the drugs, or one hundred other more plausable explanations...:hihi: