Is Health Insurance Socialism?

[Michaelangelica]

I have ignored this thread till now, but your screaming and arguments about this are being head even up here.

Most recently Obama on Letterman

I can't beleive you don't want a better, more inclusive. fairer system.

 

I am going to tell you what happens here -to my understanding of it. I hope this helps you sorting out your problems. perhaps you could look at what other G20 countries do too.

 

( BTW Socialism does not= Communism. A distiction most yanks seem to miss. I would't get too hung up about it as you seem to have a reverse-socialism system as we have seen with the sub-prime fiasco- the poor pay for the mistakes and bonuses of the rich. We need a word for that.)

 

Our system is far from perct but is miles ahead of the crazy Yank ststem.

1.

Firstly everone pays a flat % of salary (1% or so when it started probably higher now) This goes to the health system which is mostly a state responsibility with Fedral ledership and money. At the moment there is dicussion about the Feds. taking it over. This won't happen as then people will realise how useless the State 'pollies' are and get rid of them.

2.

Then ther is Workers' Compensation Insurance for injuries at or going to or from work. This is expensive with some accident prone occupations being hit hard. Builders were once charged 30% of wages. i think now the Govt has put acap on what corts can py out ans so rates have come down.

this has fueld an obsessive "health and Safety at work. Some say too obsessive.

GP's can charge what ever they want one who I want to see costs $65 a visit. i am saving up. Most however charge a little above the "Scheduled fee". Mostly the poor or those on a government pensioners are charged the "scheduled fee" ie what the govenment pays the doc (the scheduled fee) for seeing you. This fee is reviewed every year or so and always goes up.

3.

Third party car insurance which covers you for running some kid over and making him paraplegic (BTW we now surpass yankee land in our rush to sue people. We learnt from you and now have "improved" on it!)

4.

free hospital and a little dental. Theoretically anyone who needs an operation gets one. in reality there are long waiting lists (12 months or more) for non-life threatening diseases.

5.

Privet health insurance various grades. This is non-compulsory but there are BIG tax incentives to taking it out. I am a retired bulging pensioner now and am finding the cost of private cover onerous- I am going to hospital on Wednesday (to fix an iatrogenic complaint). I have always been in the highest health insurance cover and can get most operations very quickly and choose my own doctor and surgeon.

6.

PBS

Most essential medicines are paid for by the government. With a co-payment of c.$5 by the patient. When you or your family reach a certain number of scrips filled all medicines are free. But not all medicines are on the PNS list. You are encouraged to buy generic drugs.

7.

Finally returned soldiers. The lobby for them is very strong here and mostly returned soldiers do VERY well out of the system.

 

The system is far from perfect and needs lots of money all the time. Ocassionally somebody fall between the beuroctic cracks if their condition is unusual. A major review is in the air promised by PM Rudd.

 

So the results of this is to make doctor and hospital care available to all at a good base level. Things happen quiker and with more feedom of choice if you have insurance (Compo, Private Health Insurance funds, etc);

 

The other good result is the Government is much more proactive on social health issues (smoking, eating, Aids, Swine Flu). It knows that all preventative medicine will only save it money and the economy money.

There are many things that can be done to impove the Australian system-ask those who work in it.

:eek: Personally I would like to see more docs. trained. The old economic theory-"Supply and Demand Cuve"- would then bring the cost of doctors down. Unfortunately it is a "unionised' "closed shop" and doctors decide how many doctors there are; especially in the exclusive specialist clubs.

We also need to adress the cost of dental care. We now realise that good inexpensive detisitry has many long tem disease costs. At the moment it is a'licence to print money-especially on the cosmetic side (inc. braces etc).

 

More money could also be directed at complimentary care( psychologists, herbalists, chiropractic etc). This is a much cheaper option often than what we do now.

 

Always when Australians travel to the USA we take out special insuace cover against being sick when in the US. We have heard and seen too mny horror stories.

 

I hope this helps guys. You do need something. There is no point being the richest most powerful nation on earth if you can't look after your own. Spend some money on you for a change instead of the Israeli defense forces etc, et al, ad -nauseam.

i hope is that you all gree the sytem needs fixing. you won't get aperfect system to start-no one ever has. However you can always tweek it and change it further down the line.

Also ou doo find the Govenment being very pro-active

[Michaelangelica]

I have ignored this thread till now, but your screaming and arguments about this are being head even up here in the S. hemisphere.

Most recently, Obama on Letterman

I can't beleive you don't want a better, more inclusive. fairer system.

 

I am going to tell you what happens here -to my understanding of it. I hope this helps you sorting out your problems. perhaps you could look at what other G20 countries do too.

 

( BTW Socialism does not = Communism. A distiction most Yanks seem NOT to make.

I would't get too hung up about it as you seem to have a reverse-socialism system as we have seen with the sub-prime fiasco- the poor, pay for the mistakes & bonuses of the rich. We need a word for that.)

 

Our system is far from perfect but is miles ahead of the crazy Yank system.

1.

Firstly everone pays a flat % of salary as tax (1% or so when it started probably higher now) This goes to the health system which is mostly a state responsibility with Fedral ledership and money. At the moment there is dicussion about the Feds. taking it over. This won't happen as then people will realise how useless the State 'pollies' are and get rid of them.

2.

Then there is Workers' Compensation Insurance for injuries at or going to or from work. This is expensive with some accident prone occupations being hit hard. Builders were once charged 20-30% of wages. I think now the Govt. has put a cap on what courts can pay-out, and so, rates have come down.

This has fueld an obsessive "Health and Safety at Work Program". Some say too obsessive.

 

GP's can charge what ever they want. One who I want to see costs $65 a visit. I am saving up. (de facto most GPs who charge this are specilist in all but letters after their name) Most, however, charge a little above the "Scheduled fee". Mostly the poor or those on a government(AKA lousy) pensions are charged the "scheduled fee" ie what the govenment pays the doc. (the 'scheduled fee') for seeing you. This fee is reviewed every year or so and always goes up.

3.

Third Party person/al Car Insurance which covers you for running some kid over and making him paraplegic (BTW we now surpass yankee land in our rush to sue people. We learnt from you and now have "improved" on it!). This is compulsory, although I don't think [ I]Third Party Car Insurance-property[/i]is compulsory.

4.

Free hospital and a little dental. (12 months wait for a toothache to be fixed free- very cruel!). Theoretically anyone who needs an operation gets one. In reality there are long waiting lists (12 months or more) for most non-life threatening diseases in the public hospitals.

5.

Private Health Insurance various grades. This is non-compulsory but there are BIG tax incentives to taking it out. I am a retired bulging pensioner now and am finding the cost of private cover onerous- I am going to hospital on Wednesday (to fix an iatrogenic complaint). I have always been in the highest health insurance cover and can get most operations very quickly and choose my own doctor and surgeon.

6.

PBS

Most essential medicines are paid for by the government. With a co-payment of c.$5 by the patient. When you or your family reach a certain number of scrips filled all medicines are free. But not all medicines are on the PNS list. You are encouraged to buy generic drugs.

7.[/b]

Finally returned soldiers. The lobby for them is very strong here and mostly returned soldiers do VERY well out of the system.

 

The system is far from perfect and needs lots of money all the time. Ocassionally somebody falls between the beurocratic cracks if their condition is unusual. A major review is in the air promised by PM Rudd.

 

So the results of this is to make doctor and hospital care available to all at a good base level. Things happen quiker and with more feedom of choice if you have insurance (Compo, Private Health Insurance funds, etc);

 

The other good result is the Government is much more proactive on social health issues (smoking, eating, Aids, Swine Flu). It knows that all preventative medicine will only save it money and the economy money.

An interesting development of late has been Private Health Funds buying up Private Hospitals. Interesting; I wonder where that will take us?

There are many things that can be done to improve the Australian system-ask those who work in it.

 

:eek: Personally I would like to see more docs. trained. The old economic theory-"The Supply and Demand Cuve"- would then bring the cost of doctors down. Unfortunately it is a "unionised' "closed shop" and doctors decide how many doctors there are; especially in the exclusive specialist clubs.

We also need to adress the cost of dental care. We now realise that good inexpensive detisitry has many long tem disease costs. At the moment it is a'licence to print money-especially on the cosmetic side (inc. braces etc).

 

More money could also be directed at complimentary care( psychologists, herbalists, chiropractic etc).

This is a much cheaper option often than what we do now.

 

Always when Australians travel to the USA we take out special insurance cover against being sick when in the USA. We have heard and seen too many horror stories.

 

I hope this helps guys.

You do need something.

There is no point being the richest most powerful nation on earth if you can't look after your own. Spend some money on you for a change instead of the Israeli defense forces etc, et al, ad -nauseam.

i hope is that you all gree the sytem needs fixing. you won't get aperfect system to start-no one ever has. However you can always tweek it and change it further down the line.

Also ou doo find the Govenment being very pro-active

[Michaelangelica]

BTW

It is said that in China doctors are paid for the number of healthy patients they have, not the sick ones. More healthy people=more money for the doctor.

This would certainly change the direction (s) of medicine and might alleviate the fear of overuse of the system.

[Buffy]

Well, arguably, that's exactly the motivation the insurance companies have, and that's why so many people are refused for "pre-existing conditions" and why they are rampantly increasing the practice of canceling policies *after* claims have been submitted...

 

What benefit do you see from this practice Michael? Why would doctors so motivated want to take you on if you were in need of their specialties? Wouldn't they be out there trying to get the young healthy folks in for regular check ups and "having no time" for older folk with chronic problems?

 

When an actor comes to me and wants to discuss his character, I say, 'It's in the script.' If he says, 'But what's my motivation?, ' I say, 'Your salary.' :)

Buffy

[Michaelangelica]

Well, arguably, that's exactly the motivation the insurance companies have, and that's why so many people are refused for "pre-existing conditions" and why they are rampantly increasing the practice of canceling policies *after* claims have been submitted...

 

What benefit do you see from this practice Michael? Why would doctors so motivated want to take you on if you were in need of their specialties? Wouldn't they be out there trying to get the young healthy folks in for regular check ups and "having no time" for older folk with chronic problems?

Buffy

i think it is a Utopian idea with as much chance of surviving Capitalism as Jesus' Communism.

Still i would see it changing the entire focus and direction of medicine. If doctors were paid for the people they kept well, rather than killed, then there would be much more attention to preventative medicine. Hence, I would then not need doctors to minister to me in my dotage.

 

The whole focus of TCM and even Chinese Cuisine is to keep one healthy.

One does not always take Chinese herbs when one is sick; but rather than keep one well.

For example things like Ginseng have a powerful effect on the circulatory system even for old buggers like me, who often die of heart or BP/stroke problems or boredom while not being able to keep their end up. :)

[Southtown]

'This vs. that' seems to be the political reasoning. Certain things like healthcare should be socialized because they simply should not be provided by privilege. Other things like wealth should not be provided by privilege but by accomplishment.

[Southtown]

Taxes should not be required of accomplishment but of consumption...

 

That way behaviors can be both discouraged and encouraged with a single ruling.

[Geeney]

Everything here is now becoming socialite, its become necessity for us to get insured. Health insurance plans vary widely, both in cost and in benefits. Before enrolling in a health insurance plan, you should consult the plan brochure and read the policy to get specific information about the benefits and costs and the way the plan works. Medicare Supplement insurance may apply to a limited or comprehensive range of medical services and may provide for full or partial payment of the costs of specific services.