Maglev trains

[shadow67]

hey its my first time here i wanted to tell you that i am making a working model of a maglev train and i want to know if this idea could make it run forward without and physical means.

 

1. place a ceramic latch magnet behind the train and have some type of thin slice of wood board with another magnet on it. at the ends of this slice of wood will be two ropes attached with wheels which will slide over the grove at the sides of the platform the ropes will be turned by two motors at the end of the track. this magnet will costantly repel the other magnet hence pushing it in front.

 

2. please help i have already made the train by 1/4" of styrofoam and it slides well when pushed with hands. it iis due in 11 days so please help.

[GAHD]

er, can you post something a bit more coherant? I'd like to help but yourquestion is poorly framed. try adding diagrams, or pictures :) They can be turned in too.

[shadow67]

sorry but what i wanted to say is that i am building a working model of a maglev train for our high school project. our instructor told me that if you are making a maglev train it should be able to move on its own. I did some research on the internet and i visited this site where the tracks are simply two magnet strips, each measuring about 24" long, 1/2" wide, 1/8" thick, with their North side facing up.They are placed about 1/8" in from the edges of a piece of 3/4" thick wood board (with a white melamine surface) base, 24" long and 4" wide. Ends and a back wall are attached to the base, about 3" tall. The front of the base has a Plexiglas wall attached to it, so that you can see the train platform float above the tracks. the train is made of foam-core board, 3 and 7/8" wide by 6" long and 1/4" thick. On the bottom is a pair of magnet strips, about 6" long, 1/2" wide, 1/4" thick, with their North side facing down. They are placed about 1/8" in from the side edges.

 

i already fixed the apparatus and it floats well. but the only thing is that i am not being able to make it move forward on its own.

in the above site i mentioned the train has a piece of teflon tape attached to its ends for smooth sliding. i came up with another idea that if you place two magnet strips in the sides it will repel each other and stay in the centre. look at this diagram where ] and [ represents magnets attached at the sides of guide rails and the sides of the train. where ----- represents the track where ,M represents the train and where ** represents the magnets on the bottom of the train and the bottom of the track.

 

] [MMM] [

*****

*****

-------------

 

so the there is repulsion from all sides to keep the train directly levitating in the centre without touching the guide rails. so i wanted to know which one will work better the method given in that site or this method. i also thought of a method to run the train on its own . it goes like this according to that site mentioned above two (2) ceraic latch magnets are placed on both the sides of the train. for it to act like a spring. what if i take another bar magnet with same the same polar ends facing each other for eg. N and N . once i move the bar magnet towards that ceramiic latch magnet placed on both sides it will create a repulsion and will move the train forward. what i wanted to know is how can we make the bar magnet move towards the train without using my hands. please help!!!

[InfiniteNow]

It sounds like you have a really good setup already. My question is how do you get the magnets in the "track area" to move. From what I've read, maglev trains move forward because the track is made of electromagnets which are turned on and off selectively.

 

So, in position 1 of the track, the magnets are off, but in position 2 they are on, so the train moves toward position 2. Once the train reaches position 2, the magnets in position 3 are turned on, and position 2 turned off. When the train reaches position 3, the magnets in position 3 are turned off, and the magnets in position 4 are turned on... and on and on. So, on/off on/off down the track.

 

Since you are using actual magnets, you cannot turn them off. So, you're trying to have a magnet, in essence, behind the train pushing it forward, and need to figure out how to get that magnet to move. It's a heck of a setup, but I'm really not sure how you could do this without using your hands or some similar item.

 

I am going to need to appeal to our other members and hope they have an idea, cause I'm drawing a blank.

 

Is it too late to use an electromagnet? Then, you could at least cut the power in certain sections during key times... Cutting power would be ideal... cut the power, eliminate the magnetic field...

[shadow67]

how do i know which side of the electromagnet is north and which side is south? and i need some thing according to high school standard. i was thinking of a bar with a magnet in the centre which repels the train and thiis bar is pulled by two ropes at each end which is pulled by a motor from the next end ( two motors at each end ) or if you have any other ideas.

[InfiniteNow]

OFFTOPIC:

Shadow,

You can see a PM by going to User CP (top left area of the page) and click "List Messages." They remain there even if you don't see them as a popup. :phones:

[shadow67]

do you have any other bright ideas that can propell the train forward. can someone also please tell me does incrreasing the magnet width or lenght increase its magnetic strength.

[max4236]

Maybe you could make a pusher section on the track with a converor belt made with repelling or pulling magnets powered by a motor. Make the track itself move for that section. It could give the train just enough energy to go around the track once. Then when the train comes back around it gives the train another push. So the train keeps going in a continous loop. Or you could put two pusher sections on either ends of the track and have the train go back and forth from one end to the other. Some maglev trains start out with drive wheels on the track until the train picks up enough speed then the drive wheels retract up like landing gear and then the train coasts while it levitates. What kind of track do you have set up?

[shadow67]

i have a simple vertical track with magnets repelling from underneath and sides. PS read upper threads posted by me. by the way where dou you get these convertor belts?:phones:

i just want it to move back and forth. but how do you make the train move in any curved motion because i have straight, long magnets. apart from the moving train, i have decided to make two stations you know from where it starts and ends and vice versa. can you tell me any modifications i can do concerning the stations?

[max4236]

Sorry I wasn't sure if you had the track loop back around.  
If you want it to curve you have to tilt the track, bank 
around a bend like on a freeway.  <-/  or  ->     

I meant a conveyor belt.   
/======>=>=======
|(O)          (O)|  
=======<=<======/  
= big flat rubber band attatched to pulleys driven by a fast motor.
or a car belt, bike inner tube
                 <MMMMMM>    
=====>=>====-----------------===<=<=====
=====<=<====                 ===>=>===== 
station1                     station2

If you had two motors for each conveyor belt you could control
the train launching and breaking by two switches or automate 
them in a display mode.  Something like that. 

Or you could put a pair of conveyor belts on either side 
of the train where the guide rails are.  

Maybe you want to do something more high tech with an 
electromagnetic coil launcher at each station.  
Or an air rocket.

I like the magnetic guide rail idea, cool.
] [MMM] [
  *****
  *****
-------------

[TheBigDog]

Sounds like a linear motor. As the train moves down the track it pushes and pulls on magnets located along the track. The "people movers" at Disney World's Future World have been using this for 40 years, although they are wheeled, not maglev. I think you are on the right track. Space out the magnets under the train. As the train passes over them you need to flip the polarity of either the magnets on the train or the track in precise time so that they push and pull the train along.

 

Good luck!

 

Bill

[CraigD]

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I gather you’ve made something that looks, in cross section, like the attached thumbnail (were the black is foamboard, the red is magnet strip, and I may have the magnets poles backwards, but not to worry) and levitates OK.

 

Congratulations! That’s more than I’ve done.

 

The magnet and pulley scheme you describe seems possible, but not much like a real maglev. Instead, I think this might work better:

 

Make several electomagnets by wrapping insulated wire around a large nail, secure with tape of glue, leaving plenty of extra wire.

 

Stick them through the bottom of the track foamboard, with both ends of the wire coming out the bottom. For starters, space them as widely as the train car (you may want to try different spacing later)

 

To move the train, connect the wire ends of one electromagnet to a battery so that it attracts the train. Then disconnect that electromagnet, and connect to the next one, and so on. If you reverse the wires (the polarity) of the previous magnet, you can cause it to repel the train, moving it more quickly.

 

The polarity (N/S vs. +/-) of an electromagnet is given by the right hand rule, but you don’t really need to know it – just try it one way, and if that repels the train rather than attracting it, just reverse the wires. There are formulas for calculating the number of windings around the nail and the voltage of the battery to produce a given magnetic field strength, but again, it isn’t necessary – just follow the “bigger is better” rule, wrapping the nail as many times with the thinnest insulated wire you can find (there is a special kind of wire for this, with a very thin insulator, but any thin, low-current wire should work), and using the biggest practical battery (a 9-volt is will give you the same voltage as 6 1.5 AAs in a row, and not require a holder)

 

If this works, you should be able to put it all together with whatever switches you have on hand, to make operating it by hand smoother and prettier, or, if you’re really clever, something that will handle the switching automatically.

 

This sounds like fun. It may take a good bit of tinkering to get to work. I wish I could lend an actual hand, but the internet’s not quite ready for that :phones:.

[InfiniteNow]

So shadow,

 

Do you still have any questions? If so, you should ask them here, in reply to this thread, so all of our members can assist and clarify. :phones:

[shadow67]

yeah

just want to tell you that the conveyor belt idea is great the only problem is can somebody give me an idea on how to make a simple conveyor belt

[CraigD]

… our instructor told us that everything should be working on its own not manually except for switches or remote control.

The scheme I described would, I think, qualify as “not manual except for switches”. However, if you’d like to try something simpler, I’d suggest just attaching a small battery powered motor with a model airplane propeller. Switched on, it should “fly” the train car from one end of the track to the other pretty well.

 

The easiest way I can think of doing the above is to find a cheap battery powered toy plane (eg: an Airhogs Echarger, take off the wings and pretty decals, and mount it with a bit of foamboard and hotglue.

 

The Inductrack inventors have proposed driving full-size maglevs with propellers or turbojets, so this really isn’t a far-out solution.

 

If you’re committed to the conveyer belt solution, I’d consider using bended coat-hanger wire for one end, possible with a plastic or wood thread spool, the drive axle of an electric motor on the other, possible with a single wrapping of duct tape to give it better traction, and some elastic cord, which you can get at any sewing store. If you get the tension right, it should work. An easier solution would be to glue or tape the end of some heavy thread or light string to the motor axle, the other to the train car - a winch, not a conveyer belt.

[shadow67]

can somebody tell me how do i tell which side of the electromagnet is north and which side is south?

[InfiniteNow]

Grab another magnet that's marked. Hold the North end upward, and put the other magnet near the north end. If it attracts, then the end of the "other" magnet is south. If it repels, then it's north.

 

You can also get a compass (you know, the thing that helps you navigate north south east west, and really used by sailors for centuries.) Hold the compass with north facing forward, then bring your magnet near it (edge on). If the needle of the compass is repelled, then you have the north end of your magnet by it. If the needle of the compass comes toward your magnet, then you have the south end of the magnet by it. :eek: