How would you colonise space?

[Stargazer]

What steps and measures would you suggest for a longterm colonisation of the Solar system? Where should we go first, how should we do it, what should we build when we're there? What technologies would have to be developed for each stage? What are your ideas?

[pgrmdave]

Well, I believe that the first step would be a launch pad on the moon, allowing for better use of fuel. After that, I'm not sure. The obvious answer is to travel to Mars, but what to do when we get there? We would have to build a biosphere-like setting.

[BlameTheEx]

There are a number of problems.

 

Lets assume Mars as the choice for colonisation

 

1) Escaping the earths surface.

 

Only an electromagnetic cannon will boost that sort of total tonnage into space cheaply enough. Think of one 100's of kilometres long if you want you colonists to arrive in any sort of shape. Otherwise the acceleration would be too high.

 

2) Transfer to mars.

 

Solar powered ion drive. This is the easy bit.

 

3) Land on mars.

 

That was easy. You just drop. Too bad it was with a bit of a hard landing, but parachutes don't work that well with so little atmosphere.

 

Ok we got there. Now how do we make a living? No air, no food, and lots of hard radiation. Oh, its bloody cold too. It would be a high tech life. Living in underground bomb shelters to avoid the radiation. Operating machines, and digging for raw materials. Hydroponics for food. Your typical martian colonist will probably be agoraphobic and short sighted from living underground. Mars is a post apocalypse world, and yet it is still the best option after earth.

 

Of course there is the hope of teraforming mars within a few thousand years, but long before that the colonists will have adapted to being troglodytes and won't want to.

[pgrmdave]

Would it be feasible to colonize the moon?

[Stargazer]

Well, I believe that the first step would be a launch pad on the moon, allowing for better use of fuel. After that, I'm not sure. The obvious answer is to travel to Mars, but what to do when we get there? We would have to build a biosphere-like setting.

I agree. It would be wise to make use of the moon for resources, simply because it would be cheaper, in the long run, to launch it from there. I would like to complement it with industries and a space dock in Earth-Moon-L1, where it would be possible to build larger spaceships.

 

Mars would be the obvious next step. I think the first settlements would probably have to be very small, and selfsustaining.

[Stargazer]

There are a number of problems.

 

Lets assume Mars as the choice for colonisation

 

1) Escaping the earths surface.

 

Only an electromagnetic cannon will boost that sort of total tonnage into space cheaply enough. Think of one 100's of kilometres long if you want you colonists to arrive in any sort of shape. Otherwise the acceleration would be too high.

Good idea, I believe it could be possible to in some cases replace rockets with electromagnetic cannons or rails. they have to be pretty powerful though.

 

2) Transfer to mars.

 

Solar powered ion drive. This is the easy bit.

Relatively easy anyway. I agree with ion propulsion, since it's more efficient. I would like to use chemical rocketboosters to kick the ship out of Earth orbit though.

 

3) Land on mars.

 

That was easy. You just drop. Too bad it was with a bit of a hard landing, but parachutes don't work that well with so little atmosphere.

Parachutes do work well, but it's not enough. Reverse thrusters would need to be used, and for some cargo perhaps airbags as well?

 

Ok we got there. Now how do we make a living? No air, no food, and lots of hard radiation. Oh, its bloody cold too. It would be a high tech life. Living in underground bomb shelters to avoid the radiation. Operating machines, and digging for raw materials. Hydroponics for food. Your typical martian colonist will probably be agoraphobic and short sighted from living underground. Mars is a post apocalypse world, and yet it is still the best option after earth.

 

Of course there is the hope of teraforming mars within a few thousand years, but long before that the colonists will have adapted to being troglodytes and won't want to.

Obviously we would have to solve most of the problems before going there, such as how to make the colony selfsustaining regarding the air and food. I don't think it would have to be necessary to live underground though, it might be enough to develop better radiation shielding and combine it by covering the modules with dust.

 

As for terraforming Mars, I am definitely for it. How it would happen, and how fast, is the question. Could it perhaps be done by placing out smaller oasis...es and make it in smaller steps? Or would it be a better idea to do the whole planet at once?

[BlameTheEx]

Parachutes do work well, but it's not enough. Reverse thrusters would need to be used, and for some cargo perhaps airbags as well?

 

I don't think you have quite grasped the quantities of material that has to be landed. adding thrusters or airbags to the weight is out of the question.

 

I am thinking more in terms of a landing field. One option is to build shock absorbers into it - say a few meters depth of carefully graded dust covered with a plastic sheet to stop it blowing away. If it is just nice and flat the landing packages can at least use simple legs with shock absorbers.

 

Alternately we could use a flat surface with a mobile catching device. A big fast robot with one arm the size of a crane, or more arms with a net between them?

[Stargazer]

I don't think you have quite grasped the quantities of material that has to be landed. adding thrusters or airbags to the weight is out of the question.

Well, obviously it depends on what modules we're talking about. It's not like I would land the entire ship onto the surface of Mars. That would indeed be difficult. Some modules will be large, of course. A combination of several methods could work, perhaps?

 

I am thinking more in terms of a landing field. One option is to build shock absorbers into it - say a few meters depth of carefully graded dust covered with a plastic sheet to stop it blowing away. If it is just nice and flat the landing packages can at least use simple legs with shock absorbers.

 

Alternately we could use a flat surface with a mobile catching device. A big fast robot with one arm the size of a crane, or more arms with a net between them?

You mean huge robots that would catch the modules mid-air and put them down? That sounds interesting indeed. Or how about giant zeppeliner airships as a middle station?

[pgrmdave]

On the subject of terraforming mars, I can understand there could be ways to make it's chemical composition, air, soil, water, more suitable for us, but how would we deal with the temperatures?

[Stargazer]

Would it be feasible to colonize the moon?

I think so, yes. It would be a huge investment to begin with, but I don't see why it wouldn't be possible in the future.

 

On the subject of terraforming mars, I can understand there could be ways to make it's chemical composition, air, soil, water, more suitable for us, but how would we deal with the temperatures?

Perhaps with large fields of dark organisms, thereby changing the reflectivity of the surface of Mars, or colour it with other means. Large mirrors could be put into orbit to focus more sunlight. A more exotic and obviously currently impossible method would be to move Mars closer to the sun...

[pgrmdave]

How life-friendly are some of the larger moons around the jovian planets?

[BlameTheEx]

Well, obviously it depends on what modules we're talking about. It's not like I would land the entire ship onto the surface of Mars. That would indeed be difficult. Some modules will be large, of course. A combination of several methods could work, perhaps?

 

Its not the weight of individual modules that worries me - it is the total. You are trying to land an entire civilisation. Economics is all here, and anything that adds to the weight of the modules bumps up the cost. I do wish you would come to terms with the idea that man's place in space will be decided by accountants.

 

 

You mean huge robots that would catch the modules mid-air and put them down? That sounds interesting indeed. Or how about giant zeppeliner airships as a middle station?

 

Nope. Airships just wont work on Mars. Airships work on earth because they are lighter than the surrounding air. The atmosphere on mars is so thin it weighs practically nothing. I doubt aircraft of any sort are viable.

[Stargazer]

How life-friendly are some of the larger moons around the jovian planets?

I guess it depends. Are you talking about how possible it would be to plant life on them? I think we need to know much more about them first. Genetically modified plantlife could possibly survive on some of them, but I'm not sure at all. Maybe greenhouses would be the best option to grow plants for food and air etc.

[Stargazer]

Its not the weight of individual modules that worries me - it is the total.

Isn't the total mass a problem only if you try to land everything in one piece?

 

You are trying to land an entire civilisation. Economics is all here, and anything that adds to the weight of the modules bumps up the cost. I do wish you would come to terms with the idea that man's place in space will be decided by accountants.

Ok, but now we're moving onto the economical side of the problem. I thought you meant it was a problem when it came to technology, that is, to actually land the modules on the surface of Mars.

 

Nope. Airships just wont work on Mars. Airships work on earth because they are lighter than the surrounding air. The atmosphere on mars is so thin it weighs practically nothing. I doubt aircraft of any sort are viable.

Wouldn't it matter how they were constructed? Large helium balloons could work there, isn't it a matter of size and the weight of the material?

[BlameTheEx]

Wouldn't it matter how they were constructed? Large helium balloons could work there, isn't it a matter of size and the weight of the material?

 

In theory, yes. However, soft landing parachutes could be constructed out of the same material.

[Tormod]

Well, I believe that the first step would be a launch pad on the moon, allowing for better use of fuel.

And where would the fuel for launching stuff to the moon come from? The moon is not exactly full of raw materials for anything. Granted, there may be sources of He3 there but we would need some sort of mining operation to get it out.

 

I don't see how a lunar base would help in the initial phases. Every single piece of equipment there would come from the Earth aynway so you wouldn't save a thing on launch costs.

[pgrmdave]

Every single piece of equipment there would come from the Earth aynway so you wouldn't save a thing on launch costs.

 

I hadn't thought about that, but it makes sense.