Linux for dummies...

[alexander]

Whoah, whoah T, there is more then just political issues with RedHat, althought there are plenty of those too...

 

First of all, back like 9-10 years ago RedHat was a good company that many Linux people were looking up to. They were one of the first companies to start selling support for Linux, thus bringing the ability for corporations (and corporations dont buy software products with no customer support) to start using and embracing Linux. RedHat was great, they hired a team of tallented programmers and started writing drivers for hardware and random misc software. Drivers written for RedHat kernels would always get backported to the original Linux kernel and hence everybody loved RedHat, well almost. In their later years RedHat decided to stop this backwards-sharing process and made their distro even more commercial. Linux geeks ofcourse did not like that at all, as linux is based on sharing your code with your peers.

 

RedHat also lacks many features available in most other Linux distros, because since they are a corporation they can not infringe on other people's pattents and copyrights, thus simple things like mp3 support was taken out from multimedia programs in RedHat.

 

More things that suck in redhat:

 

1) X support in emacs does not work

 

2) Man pages are constantly broken

 

3) RPM is not much of a package manager, it does not seem to install all the dependencies by default, what you use is rpmfind, it checks for dependencies, but it does not install them, and rpmfind is very tempermental and many of my friends recall times when it used to break(not one, many times), so you would have to go out and find the dependencies for the package, try to install those, if a dependency seems to have more dependencies get and install those, but that does not guarantee that dependencies you have downloaded dont interact and break other dependencies you have and so on and so forth... rpm is not a very good package manager, port and portage are waaay better, trust me.

 

4) many packages are bound to others in ways they should not be, like links is bound to gdm, bud dammit links does not need a mouse!

 

5) It's got a gui installer, but it is a major pain to run in non-gui mode, because it was made to run with a GUI...

 

6) You won't find any firm assertion on any of the RPM distributions' web sites stating that upgrading an existing installation is fully supported and guaranteed to be trouble-free. It's quite the opposite and for a good reason - just have a look at SuSE's mailing list to know that upgrading a previous release is hardly a walk in the park. If you have a Vanilla install, its one thing updating the system, but if you have a few packages installed from source, and a few commercial packages, a system-wide upgrade can be a very tempermental thing you may not want to undertake...

 

7) Shawn Gordon of The Kompany: "Depending on your distribution you've got KDE in /usr, /opt/kde, /opt/kde2 or god knows where. For packaging everyone decided to make a new name for the directory between /usr/src and /RPMS, you've got 'redhat', 'OpenLinux', 'RPM', 'rpm', 'packages' and those are just the ones I've noticed myself. We are getting to the point that we are seriously considering not supporting distributions that don't support the LSB. I've been very encouraged by SuSE's work in this direction, and disappointed at how bad Red Hat and Mandrake are."

 

So rather than providing a myriad of different binary RPMs for the dozens of different Linux distribution, The Kompany, which is a commercial entity developing Linux applications, reluctantly decides to give away the source code to paying customers. Developers HATE RPMs...

 

8) About that tech support... you submit a bug to redhat about an error an rpm gives you during an installation, and it is not very uncommon to see a reply such as this:

"Because Unix always gives the sysadmin enough rope to shoot him/herself. If you administrate a system you are supposed to know what you do."

 

Yeah, words of wisdom... If you want a good server distro with support, use Suse, if you want a good server distro and dont care about support, use Gentoo, and if you need a desktop system with support, use Suse, if you need a good desktop system without support, use Ubuntu (Kubuntu or Xubuntu). And finally if you need a desktop system with a user base for your school, use Edubuntu... Oh, if you are really desperate and need a server system that is easy to install and has some support and is easy to manage and stuff, use Ubuntu-Server at your own risk, Novell (Suse linux) is working with Microsoft to make windows desktops work with linux servers and linux desktops work with windows servers... Lots of development in Samba and those fields, good stuff...

[Wannabe Genius]

I've been off line for a while (OK, a couple of years, but who's counting) so forgive me re-awakening this old thread...

 

As I read through this to be honest, I didn't really have much to say on this post but it was the obvious one to pick for talking Linux.

 

I'm currently back at Uni studying secure and forensic computing, where I have to use 3 different types of system.

 

First and foremost, Windows.

I HATE WINDOWS! but needs must.

Secondly Sun Solaris

Nice and stable until some idiot removes the network cable. then you're in trouble

Thirdly, SUSE Linux

Like Solaris, Suse has been set up with the GNOME desktop. I'm a KDE man

 

To overcome this, I came up with a nifty solution.

I've installed one of the distros I've not seen posted here (Mandriva) onto a 500Gb external hard-drive. I can take that to virtually any PC system in the Uni and boot nicely into KDE. All the devices are recognized and configured correctly by Mandriva at boot time, and it is even kind enough not to mount the hard drives (A behaviour that I don't want it doing!)

 

The only real issue with this is if I go to a new machine, I have to reconfigure the network every time (Boo hoo! 10 second job, enter root passwd and click next a couple of times, ctrl+bkspc to restart X and I'm back up and running, a small price to pay!). I have the same access to the same resources other students have, + some "extras"

 

On top of all this, I have my beloved command line. Yes, I still FTP via command line when its feasible to do so. And, if I'm inside Uni, I even still use Telnet (yeah, I know, security. Explain that to the admins. I've asked for SSH but have to stick with whats available)

 

I moved onto dual booting Linux in 2001. I moved 100% Linux in 2004 and now I will not look back. Except where I have to! Certain modules on my course dictate I use windows, and its good to remind myself from time to time exactly why I switched.

[alexander]

egh, mandriva, it runs a highly inefficient kernel in a suse-like system, bad init scripts, rc script stinks to say the least, its still stuck back in rpm/cvs days, egh, bad thoughts, funny you spoke of it...

 

It would not work on every computer, come on now, lets be rational, it will not work on a spark, mips or a PPC system :P

 

You could install and run the live kernel on Ubuntu, and it would do the same thing. (you like KDE, then Kubuntu) Oh and depending on the hardware you could run Beryl with XGL or AIGLX on systems that have graphics hardware that supports it B)

 

There are Linux distros on that are specifficaly designed to run on CD/DVD and removable external USB devices (like 8GB flash drive or more, or an HD device), infact there are full-blown file/web servers with all kinds of crazyness and security features, and the product is the size of an ipod!

[sanctus]

C1ay, Sudo? I just know it means I transpire in italian....

[Tormod]

C1ay, Sudo? I just know it means I transpire in italian....

 

It basically means "run this command as root" (super user do) - without having to be root. It means you allow the system to run the command and any required extras without forcing you to log in as root (with all the security issues that brings with it).

[Tormod]

I've been off line for a while (OK, a couple of years, but who's counting) so forgive me re-awakening this old thread...

 

Whoa there! Long time no see! Hope you stick around! :shrug:

[C1ay]

C1ay, Sudo? I just know it means I transpire in italian....

 

Sudo Main Page

[Wannabe Genius]

egh, mandriva, it runs a highly inefficient kernel in a suse-like system, bad init scripts, rc script stinks to say the least, its still stuck back in rpm/cvs days, egh, bad thoughts, funny you spoke of it...

 

It would not work on every computer, come on now, lets be rational, it will not work on a spark, mips or a PPC system :shrug:

 

You could install and run the live kernel on Ubuntu, and it would do the same thing. (you like KDE, then Kubuntu) Oh and depending on the hardware you could run Beryl with XGL or AIGLX on systems that have graphics hardware that supports it

 

Ugh @ XGL and AIGLX. I tried both, spent ages getting XGL to work then decided I hated it. I've got no need for eye-candy most of the time. Ok, a bit of transparency here and there doesn't go amis, but on the whole, my desktop's pretty much bog standard. Quartz window style, plastik widget style, Crystal SVG icons, and the blue slate colour theme.

 

As for the Mandriva kernel, I don't know about the default being inefficient. I've been compiling my own on every upgrade for the last 3 years. I do agree with the rpm issue though. The number of times I've been stuck in dependancy hell is unreal. Mind you, now I have a complete mirror of both Mandriva's download site, and the P.L.F packages, life gets a whole lot simpler. Ahh the beauty of a 500Gb external and an ultra fast connection. :-)

[alexander]

well, XGL is nothing without beryl, compiz, while good for a while it stunk compared to Beryl. XGL is innefficient though, AIGLX is a lot more so, but does not run on most ATI cards.

 

BTW if you compile your own kernel, and unless you compile in every possible driver you see in there and run special hardware identification modules used in live cd kernels, your kernel will not start up on any machine outside of those that are very similar to yours. And if you do compile all the possible drivers in, you get an inefficient kernel, while it will run on most common PCs...

 

I patch and compile my own kernels as well, especialy for gentoo on my mac (tis not so easy to do for ubuntu, but there are a few tutorials out there to help with getting all the tools together and working as ubuntu is not intended to be a from-source distro)

 

I dunno, i just dont like a non debian-based distros, i mean i posted top 10 things that piss me off about FC, Suse is a weird distro to me, slacks is too rpm-based, so i am left with all those debian-based distros, knoppix, and LFS, and LFS is in the cool list, because it is so hard to do.

 

Anyways, Genius, its nice to see ya, anyone who runs linux is cool in my book any day, respect :hihi: (AliG reference :) )

[iorgobas]

Linux is the best and cheaper alternative for Windows. Go down Bill!!

[freeztar]

So Boerseun, did you end up making the switch? If so, how did it go?

 

I decided, finally, to give Linux a good try and am currently downloading Kubuntu upon C1ay's suggestion early in this thread. I'm hoping to be able to do my basic computing in Linux (surfing, wordprocessing, etc.) and switch to Windows to do my music production (as Linux is deprived in this respect from what I understand).

 

Any tips or anything to be cautious of while I'm trying out Kubuntu?

[alexander]

and switch to Windows to do my music production

well, that depends on what you need to do. I know everyone that runs aspectradio.com, online radio station, and its all running on open-source software, the music production by their house DJs is all Linux-based, every recorded show/party is recorded with GNU tools on linux and its broadcasted from the laptop on the stage over a sprint cell card to their icecast server in OGG and then its broadcast, so depending on what you are doing, Linux may not be as bad a platform as you may think for sound stuff.

 

Things to look at:

Audacity - if you havent heard of it, id dunno what you do in music

Ardour - digital music, multitrack recording, editing, mixing

Muse

Traverso - another multitrack recorder

XO Wave - audio editing, cd mastering, video sync, etc

cinelerra - audio/video production soft

GramoFile - Record LPs to CD, also it helps with removing the poping, hissing and clicking that you see on vinyl all the time.

Rosegarden - audio/midi sequencer, music editor, has a music writing interface, score editor, etc.

aumix - audio mixer

Hydrogen - drum machine

Terminator X - dj-style audio mixer

gungirl sequencer - easy to use audio sequencer (its still pre 1.0)

tablature - bass and guitar tablature editor

Lied - lilipond code editor, for creating real good looking score sheets.

Breakage - another drum machine

gneutronica - midi drum machine

beatforce - dj playlists manager with cross fades and all the fun stuff

UltraMixer - dj mixing soft

Mixxx - another mixer, simple and clean

GNUitar - realtime guitar processor

sfxserver and sfxclient - sound effects server and client

fscape - suit of experimental audio processing algorithms

jesusonic - programmable effects processor

SBAgen Linux - binatural beat generator, based on idea that if you apply 2 different sine waves to 2 ears, and your brain will actually generate the beat due to its internal wiring.

abcde - better cd encoder

audioconvert - script to convert between WAV, OGG, MP3, MPC, FLAC, APE or WMA files.

tune - program to help tuning instruments

LoopCenter - Live looping tool

LoopDub - live loop editor

rtsynth - real tyme software synth

white key - to play midi files through digital audio

midiyodi - allows playback, editing and depth examination of midi files

Jam - program to connect gus to midi

gmorgan - midi rythm station emulator

anthem - advanced midi sequencer

cthugha - audio visualizer

rivendell - radio production suit

ringtone creator - does just that

LinuxSampler - professional linux sampler

amsynth - analogue modeling synth

smack - sample free drum synth

arts - complete modular analogue synth

freq - spectrum analyzer

sonogram visual speech - sound analyzer tool

xspectrum - sound analizer using the sound card as a digitizer

net streamer - send and receive audio streams over the net

 

 

enjoy your research

[Tormod]

Until Linux gets full VST support there's not much in it for musos like Freezy and myself. ;)

[alexander]

There are 2 compeeting technologies on linux with VST:

LADSPA and DSSI. DSSI actually has a DSSI-VST wrapper to allow to host some VST instruments within DSSI.

 

I do know what you meant though, say it Tormod, till there's ProTools for Linux, music junkies will not switch...

[freeztar]

There are 2 compeeting technologies on linux with VST:

LADSPA and DSSI. DSSI actually has a DSSI-VST wrapper to allow to host some VST instruments within DSSI.

 

I do know what you meant though, say it Tormod, till there's ProTools for Linux, music junkies will not switch...

 

I could give a damn about Protools...

Full VST support however, is a necessity (I'll be experimenting with the wrappers you mentioned). Although, my biggest concern is hardware support. My music computer uses an Aardvark Q10 audio card which does not support Linux. And since the company went out of business a couple years back, I don't expect it will ever support Linux. ;)

That's also why I expect to stay on XP for my music computer. No way I'll dump my $700 audio card for Vista.

[Tormod]

Yeah, ProTools is not interesting. There is already energyXT2 for Linux - a vastly capable sequencer. But without VST support it is useless for people who have invested thousands of dollars in the technology. But things are happening... linux-vst.com ;)

[freeztar]

Yeah, ProTools is not interesting. There is already energyXT2 for Linux - a vastly capable sequencer. But without VST support it is useless for people who have invested thousands of dollars in the technology. But things are happening... linux-vst.com :)

 

I forgot about eXT2, it's definitely capable of being a good Linux audio host. The VST porting looks promising as well. With the MDA suite alone you have a good selection of filters and effects, not the best, but definitely workable for someone who knows how to work it. ;)

But alas, we still have the problem of hundreds of dollars spent on VST's that will probably never be ported to Linux. I just do not see Steinberg or Native Instruments making that leap, which would be required for the other guys to jump on the bandwagon. :eek_big:

 

 

And back to Kubuntu...

I burnt the .iso of Kubuntu onto a CD and reset my bios so that it would boot from optical disk before hard drive and I saved and restarted. The cd booted as expected and I was presented with a menu with several options. I chose the first option, "Run or install Kubunut" (or something like that). Pressing enter displayed a "Loading..." up in the left hand corner of the menu. Five seconds later, my computer powers off. :( I retried it a couple more times with the same result. Not a very good start for my Linux trial I must say. :shrug:

 

So any ideas as to why this is happening?

 

I realize that this is not a Linux support forum, so if it is more prudent, I would gladly take suggestions of other websites dedicated to Linux support. :)