How time dilation occurs

[quantumtopology]

One way to infer an answer, is to consider the situations where time dilation occurs. If we increase mass density we get more time dilation via general relativity. The second situation is via velocity and special relativity. The common link is mass/energy (two side of the same coin), with gravity/mass and velocity/energy. With SR the more energy as velocity we add, the more time dilation. With GR the more mass we add, the more the time dilation. So time dilation increases with increasing mass/energy.

 

Also, by the equivalence principle, one shouldn't distinguish the effects of acceleration from the gravity field, thus acceleration and gravity must both produce time dilation which makes sense if you think about the mass-energy equivalence.

 

Edit: Oops CraigD already mentioned the equivalence principle,

[jartsa]

Let's build a customized Einstein light clock. It should consist of a cone shaped light container, and then of course light.

 

In this light clock light has tendency to move towards the wider end.

 

Kicking the narrow end of this light clock has the effect of light inside moving away from the wider end.

 

Then light moves back towards the wide end. And probably just this is the the time when slowing down of this light clock happens.

 

 

 

 

Now, let's have a traditional light clock. We give it a push. The direction of the push should be

same as the direction of the light. Now we can see that it happens a slowing down AND a

speeding up in the clock. The back and forth motion of light changes so that "forth" is slow, while "back" is fast.

 

.... And then the slowing down beats the speeding up.

[jartsa]

When you stand on the north pole and jump upwards then:

 

1: you continue spinning 360 degrees / 24 hours , there is not the usual kind time dilation

 

2: your maximum speed upwards is not the usual light speed, it is a little bit slower speed.

 

 

 

 

If you are a spinning particle, and you are accelerated by a particle accelerator then:

 

1: you do not continue spinning at the same rate, there is the usual kind time dilation

 

2: your maximum speed is the usual light speed.

 

 

 

On other forum I was told this is 1: pseudoscience, 2: crap, but actually it's theoretical physics.

Edited September 10, 2010 by jartsa

[Farsight]

Sounds good to me jartsa. We can make an electron out of light via pair production, and the electron has spin. People do talk about "intrinsic" spin, but take a look at the Einstein-de Haas effect and note where it says it "demonstrates that spin angular momentum is indeed of the same nature as the angular momentum of rotating bodies as conceived in classical mechanics".

 

So consider the electron spin to be essentially light going round and round at c in a circular path. When you move the electron, the light is going round a helical path, and one 360-degree demands a longer light path. Hence the electron is spinning at a slower rate and is time dilated.

 

Gravitational time dilation is different, in that the path remains circular, but the coordinate speed of light is slower in a region of low gravitational potential.

[jartsa]

Sounds good to me jartsa. We can make an electron out of light via pair production, and the electron has spin. People do talk about "intrinsic" spin, but take a look at the Einstein-de Haas effect and note where it says it "demonstrates that spin angular momentum is indeed of the same nature as the angular momentum of rotating bodies as conceived in classical mechanics".

 

So consider the electron spin to be essentially light going round and round at c in a circular path. When you move the electron, the light is going round a helical path, and one 360-degree demands a longer light path. Hence the electron is spinning at a slower rate and is time dilated.

 

Gravitational time dilation is different, in that the path remains circular, but the coordinate speed of light is slower in a region of low gravitational potential.

 

 

Ha ha you didn't understand. The jumping person example is an example of jumping, the accelerated particle example is an example of something being accelerated.

 

 

Maybe it's time to tell my theory at last.

 

My theory is: when an object is being accelerated its mass increases.

 

That's it.

 

 

I should add that jumping does not count as "being accelerated"

 

So I was talking about the conservation of angular momentum of a changing mass vs. the conservation of angular momentum of a non-changing mass. I was suggesting that there is a difference,

the difference being time dilation vs. no time dilation, unless we consider the jumping person's inability to reach speeds very close to light speed to be some kind of time dilation.

[Little Bang]

Your theory has been around since 1905.

[jartsa]

Your theory has been around since 1905.

 

Who was the einstein that invented my theory 1905?

[jartsa]

How many times does the Schrodingen wave of a traveling twin paradox twin wave?

 

 

My guess is: still staying twin's time * traveling twins energy according to still staying twin * 1/Planck's constant

 

 

So that's more waves for the traveling twin than for the other twin.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In other words: what kind of light is there in space-cruiser cruising at speed 0.999 c ? Let's say hey are burning candles in there.

 

Answer: that's high-energy, high-frequency light. This light waves rapidly, not slowly.

Edited September 11, 2010 by jartsa

[jartsa]

In a deep well, what happens to frequency of light?

 

Well, the light moves slowly there, so it must also wave slowly, so that interference experiments work the "normal" way.

 

 

 

(is there a law that says that in a deep well things work "normally"??)

[hugh]

@kalesh;

 

i will suggest you take a look at the time dilation i posted recently

http://scienceforums.com/topic/22469-time-dilation/.

i believe it will help you provided that you are able to read the whole of it and understand it properly.

 

you may also wish to read "New relativity [nwobu's effect] for further clarifications. http://scienceforums.com/topic/22304-new-theory-of-relativity-nwobus-effect/

good luck.

prof.Hugh

[steve 9]

Anyone got any ideas of how and why time dilation occurs?

The fact that it does happen is fine but why exactly? I tried google but couldn't up with anything.

Any help appreciated.

 

 

Hi. I just read through this thread and as you can see no one can give a simple explaination of why or how time dilation occurs, or even what it is. It is getting a bit complicated.

 

Let me help you out here. You are trying to find why and how a certain thing, in this case time, dilates. Your first step is to find out what time is.

 

What is the scientific explaination of time? What is the standard reference definition of time? What is time?

 

You will find your answer when you can answer with certainty these two questions: First. What is time? Is it a physical thing? If so, then physical in what way? Is it a particle? Is it a wave? What is it?

 

I will tell you that if you do not have a good solid definition of time as it is being used in describing time dilation, then you will have a hard time. The problem with this whole time dilation thing is NOT the hows and the whys, it is no one has defined what they mean by time. Go ahead and look, Google, Wikipedia, check the whole web, your friends, people on this form. See if you can find a good definition of time that everyone can agree with.

 

Once you find a definition that you like or seems to describe time, then the next question is, Does that definition describe something that has the ability to be dilated?

 

I have much to say on this topic, but I want you or anyone reading this to just define the basics on this topic. Science has a good definition for dilation that we can all agree on, so now find a good definition or explaination of what is being dilated (time).

 

I can tell you from past experience that no one will find a good working definition of time. But everyone sure has their ideas and opinions on what time is. Not a standard scientific definition to be found. Think I am wrong? Please go and find out for yourself.

 

Anyone willing to show that I am mistaken?

 

p.s. Saying that time has been defined by someone, or the leading authorities say time is real, or any other non answer does not count. Just keep it simple. Post the definition here on this thread or at least post a link to what you think is a good definition of time as it is being used in time dilation. What exactly is being dilated? Thats all.

 

 

Thank You. I hope that we can all learn something on this topic.

[jartsa]

 

See if you can find a good definition of time that everyone can agree with.

 

 

 

 

Being slow causes the phenomenon of being late. There can be a small "late" or a big one. Big "late" is made of big amount of "time".

If you start being slow "early" and stop the slacking off "late", then a big "time dilation" is generated.

 

There an interesting asymmetry: you can always neutralize being too speedy by being slow, but the opposite is not true.